Transwoman using women's loos at work

[CharlieSierra]

I've posted a bit about this over the past few days on the MN response to Spartacus thread in site stuff, but someone suggested I start a new thread about it here.

Earlier this week I was surprised to encounter an apparently male person in the women's loos at work. I understand from a colleague that they have just started the transitioning process, and it appears from all the research I have done that there is no way to avoid them invading our space. It would be discriminatory to prevent them.
We also have showers, presumably the same applies. I plan to take it up with HR, since none of the women in the building were told this could happen, but I haven't managed to speak to anyone about it yet.
I feel angry, powerless, silenced. It's obvious using the next cubicle that they use the toilet as a man would. We will have to adapt our behaviour, hide any discomfort so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. There are unisex accessible loos on every floor, but no, they want to be in ours.

It's s bit weird that the 'last thing' that the OP's colleague wants is a penis and yet there they are, standing up pissing in a quintessential male way, in the women's toilets. You have to wonder about the mindset of someone who thinks that's acceptable.

Hermione - Can you find another link? I don't do the Fail 😁 I'm not denying there may be risks as there are all sorts of risks in life and if a man wants to be a creep he'll find a way. I refuse, however, to dismiss the needs of a vulnerable group of people just because some may take advantage. We have a responsibility as humans to at least strive to find a solution. I'm sorry if I've been clumsy in my expression. My personal experiences with trans women have obviously influenced my emotional response to many on here talking about trans women with such disdain. 'They're men', 'they choose to be trans' etc. Some unnecessarily nasty stuff.

The day a trans woman struts proudly into a shower full of women with their meat and two veg swinging free is the day I eat my hat.

Hope that hat tastes nice nat

Lynda - she doesn't know that. She didn't see. Pinky - I think you and I know that's not typical.

It's different because wanting a big house in Chelsea is material greed. Noone wakes up one day and thinks 'Fuck being Trevor and enjoying my white man priviledge! I'll ne Tracy from now on and live a life of ridicule and blokes threatening to kick my head in'.

Material greed? What a total bigot you are!! Calling transrich people greedy. Your words are literal violence

(Not really. Just trying to draw a comparison as to how ridiculous TA arguments are)

nat it may not be typical but it's the reality of self identification.

If you believe a TW is a woman I take it you have no problem with what Colleen did?

I'm not going to spend all night finding links because the ones I provide to counter your THIS NEVER HAPPENS assertions aren't to your liking.

TW who looks like a bloke was in women's changing rooms with their cock out. Not full of self loathing. Happened to need to be in their with their cock out at the same time that the teen girls swim group met each week. Pool refuse to remove TW because she has every right to be there (despite being indistinguishable physically from a man so at zero risk in male changing rooms). Girls' swim team forced to cram into disabled loos because of their BIGOTRY of not wanting to be forced to be naked with a naked adult male.

Feel free not to dismiss the needs of trans people - campaign all you like for trans spaces and facilities. Just don't say women have to budge up, make room and STFU.

'Not typical' is absolutely not going to fly. You seem to think the kids in this particular case, for example, are simply collateral damage. And what harm is done to Colleen Francis by a gender neutral facility?

And why is it not typical? Transwomen want access to female spaces, toilets, changing rooms etc. What are they going to do in there? Check their emails? One would assume they're going to change and shower.

Hermione - I didn't say it NEVER happened. I said it wasn't rife and that the welfare of trans women shouldn't be dismissed because a few choose to behave appallingly.

Should all men be banned from parks because quite a few men have flashed their genitals to children in parks?

Yes quite Hermione. How many examples are going to be 'not typical' or 'not the majority' or 'not all TW are like that'.

That is not the point as has been repeated over and over and over again.

It puts women and girls at vastly more risk. It removes entirely women and girls' privacy from men and bodily dignity. Is that not enough? Is validation still more important? Is it really?

Hermione - anyone with a grain of integrity wouldn't touch anything the Daily Mail publishes with a barge pole. They love a bit of hate spreading. I can't cope with the bold bullet points for the simpler readerz.

We have a responsibility as humans to at least strive to find a solution

And I say again why are you asking females to resolve this? If, trans women require separate facilities it is up to them to campaign for them not take over space that has been hard fought for and as it stands some facilities (refuges etc ) can not cope in the demand for them.

They're men should never be taken as nasty stuff , just a biological fact.

Nat - why do you care about kids being flashed at in parks. You don't care about kids being flashed at in changing rooms. So meh.

nat you said if there had ever been a case of a TW getting their cock out in the changing rooms you would eat your hat. That implies you think it never happens - unless you come from a culture where hats are a delicacy??

And parks aren't segregated by sex.

You are clearly an intelligent and compassionate person, why are you finding it so hard to grasp?

Jesus Christ, that link. The temporary solution was a privacy curtain for the females in the female changing room? That's so utterly depressing.

I do care about kids being flashed at in parks. I'm just not daft enough to want to ban a whole group because a minority are perverts. You know, the old saying about the tar and the brush.

Lynda - If you have a penis, how else are you supposed to pee, if not...through your penis?

Can people not google their own statistics for transphobic violence?

Ok. The very first statistic google has shown me says that transphobic crime in the UK is up 44%, and up to 80% of all transphobic crime is not reported. A third of all trans people report crime...and yet...up to 80% isn't reported?

I'm cooking and typing on my phone, but anyone with more time and inclination can, I'm sure, find more.

And one reason so many trans people do not have bottom surgery is because that is the most physically traumatic part of transition, and they are waiting for further medical advances. It's also expensive, if you have to pay. It can also give you limited physical function.

Again, google is your friend.

natweb no one is saying the welfare of transwomen should be dismissed. That doesn't mean that the welfare of women and girls should be, either.
There's already evidence that that is already happening, no matter how much you choose to ignore it.

Kua - I said society needs to find a solution. Stop thinking that I'm attacking women for goodness sake. There really is a lot of over zealous mouth frothing in this forum.

Lozza, thanks for that. I rrally thought we had made progress, that the attacks you describe has reduced in number quite a lot but I don't know the stats. I'm also probably judging from own narrow experience which is that male friends who wear dresses are less picked on that they used to be..maybe it's just a question of luck in terms of what I have seen.

But I did real,y feel Boy in a Dress was progress for a child's story, and I do think that now the child i. the story woukd be told he should look at transitioning. I also thought the science museum brain quiz was something from the 50s and I feel in the 90s it might have caused more of an outcry than it does now?

And telling a woman with PCOS that she must be a man is a step back too.

Noeffing - I agree. It's just that many on here were saying they don't give a flying fuck what happens to these daft men who suddenly decide they want to go from Mark to Martha as long as they're spared the inconvenience. It was that somewhat cuntish attitude that got my heckles up.

We cross posted
I also need to look up the definition of trans phobic crime I think, because I don't know what definition of trans is being used.

Seriously. I thought Feminism was based on equality, not an attack on men. Trans issues aside all this hate talk towards men is just as bad as what women faced years ago and now in certain ways too.

Not all men are abusers ya know! Not all women are innocent either. I've been in female toilets on a night out and witnessed another female glass and scar for life a lady for no reason at all.

I give up with my point on the trans issue. However in this day and age you would think people wouldn't be so narrow minded. Leaving this thread now.

And the attitude expressed by numerous posters that women and girls are acceptable collateral damage in the brave journey to validate men's delusions gets my hackles up.