Transwoman using women's loos at work

[CharlieSierra]

I've posted a bit about this over the past few days on the MN response to Spartacus thread in site stuff, but someone suggested I start a new thread about it here.

Earlier this week I was surprised to encounter an apparently male person in the women's loos at work. I understand from a colleague that they have just started the transitioning process, and it appears from all the research I have done that there is no way to avoid them invading our space. It would be discriminatory to prevent them.
We also have showers, presumably the same applies. I plan to take it up with HR, since none of the women in the building were told this could happen, but I haven't managed to speak to anyone about it yet.
I feel angry, powerless, silenced. It's obvious using the next cubicle that they use the toilet as a man would. We will have to adapt our behaviour, hide any discomfort so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. There are unisex accessible loos on every floor, but no, they want to be in ours.

The assumption that all TW are predatory fetishist sexual devients is starting to wear thin now.

This old chestnut always gets rattled out on these threads but I've never actually seen anyone say that TW specifically are predators? It's frankly extrapolating bollocks.

Winchester - when your knickers are down you'll be in a locked cubicle though. You seem to take having your feelings dismissed very badly but are more than ok with dismissing the feelings of the trans community.

I don't care why Bob becomes Jane.
I don't care if it's shits and giggles or pure hatred of women and a desire to show them who is boss.
I don't care.

Women have the right to say no to men.

Are you kidding natwebb? Have you not read any responses at all?

Allowing transwomen (men) into private female spaces allows ALL MEN in to private female spaces. How is this hard to understand? How?

Ntwebb- what about being naked in the shower and a naked man comes in? What then?

If every fibre of my being were telling me I'm Napoleon can I insist on being given a horse and allowed to lead a Prussian cavalry charge?

Exactly Izzy - on what planet would people make it more accessible and easy to commit sexual crimes which are already insanely high. This whole "pah I don't think that men would go as far as accessing women's changing rooms to rape" are fucking deluded. They already put hidden cameras in hotel rooms and cut holes in walls to peep. 700,000 women a year are victims of stalking in the U.K. If someone says "you can walk into a changing room looking as you do and would be free to stare at naked women, and if anyone says anything theyll be committing a crime" they'd be fucking laughing!

Hairy - David Spameron would have no reason to attend a black women socialist's group other than to be a knob. If you think that TW live as women just to be a pain in the arse then that's slightly more embarassimg than my earlier comparison. The point was that you can't stop individuals innocently living the life they need to live just because you fear they could possible perhaps do you harm. Your fears shouldn't trump their needs.

I Envy women who lead lives with no fear of assault or rape. When working shifts I did spend every evening worried about the walk to the car. The fact work gave female employees rape alarms and eventually an escort (after a female was sexually assaulted) showed the risks that where faced. It took me a while to get out of the habit of having a key between my fingers. I was at a festival this summer they had security and posters warning girls at the female toilets, I am sure they would not spend that amount of money for no reason.

every fibre of my being is currently telling me I'm arguing with blancmange

And their delusions shouldn't trump my right to sex segregated space

Any more than if I believe I'm a zebra I can insist on living in the zoo

'educate yourself'

BINGO!

Your fears shouldn't trump their needs.

Why not?

Can I remind you in the UK 1 in 10 women are victims of rape or sexual assault. Around 99% of these crimes are committed by men . TW commit sexual violence crimes at the same rate as men do. People's fears are bona fide. Why does a TW 'need' to change and urinate around real women? Other than for their own validation? And why does this trump the legitimate feats of women, most of whom WILL have been victims of sexual violence before?

The issue with most of the women who disagree with me is that they refuse to try to understand trans women and how their need to live a certain life is a 'nees' rather than a 'want'. You've made it clear you don't give a flying fuck about them and will stamp your feet so that your life is slightly more convenient. To that end I shall bail out now as there's nothing more I can add. Thank you for the discussion.

pubegardens

agree with everyone except the blancmangey people

You are sooooo missing the point nat

It is not about not wanting TW in toilets it is about not wanting MEN in toilets.
Should the law be passed that any man choosing to identify as a women and keep his penis is allowed in to womens toilets that means ANY MAN. So any sexual male predetor who wants access to womens private places can merely state i am now Jane i wear a dress i can be here legally.

Why can you not see the danger in that?

Every fibre of my being tells me I should live in a 14-bed Chelsea mansion. I'm going to go and squat and then shout 'bigot' when those privileged Chelsea folk dare to kick off. After all I need to live in a mansion, why does the fact that they bought the house trump my feelz?

Can you respond natwebb to - what if i'm in the shower naked and a naked strange man comes in ?

and also to - allowing transwomen into female spaces allows all men into female spaces

??

tia

The issue with most of the women who disagree with me is that they refuse to try to understand trans women and how their need to live a certain life is a 'nees' rather than a 'want'.

We try to understand but all we see is delusion which results in our spaces being encroached on. What is it you want us to 'see'?

Hermione - their 'delusions'? Fucking hell.

'The issue with most of the women who disagree with me is that they refuse to try to understand trans women and how their need to live a certain life is a 'nees' rather than a 'want'. '

Not really, the issue for me is them being men. It kind of stops right there.

When I was in labour during a home birth I was advised to adopt the 'broken record' technique when dealing with people who would rather override my wishes in favour of their own. Constantly resorting to logic and reason doesn't work with unreasonable people.
So from now on, to people who refuse to engage with WHY they advocate women should have their rights taken away, I'm just going to repeat - nope. Women have a right to privacy and bodily dignity.

Sorry that you don't believe in privacy and dignity for women. Doesn't seem much point in engaging with you given that fact.

Yes, delusions. A false belief . Like an anorexic believes she is fat. A man believing he's a woman is a false belief

It may not be comfortable reading, but it is accurate. Mental health a couple of years post transition is no betted than before . I suspect that lying to people with gender dysphoria that they can "change Sex" is part of that . The dawning realisation that you can't must be awful after well meaning individuals have pretended you can to spare your feelings

Answers came there none.

Your fears shouldn't trump their needs.

Their needs shouldn't trump my rights as a Woman.