Transwoman using women's loos at work

[CharlieSierra]

I've posted a bit about this over the past few days on the MN response to Spartacus thread in site stuff, but someone suggested I start a new thread about it here.

Earlier this week I was surprised to encounter an apparently male person in the women's loos at work. I understand from a colleague that they have just started the transitioning process, and it appears from all the research I have done that there is no way to avoid them invading our space. It would be discriminatory to prevent them.
We also have showers, presumably the same applies. I plan to take it up with HR, since none of the women in the building were told this could happen, but I haven't managed to speak to anyone about it yet.
I feel angry, powerless, silenced. It's obvious using the next cubicle that they use the toilet as a man would. We will have to adapt our behaviour, hide any discomfort so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. There are unisex accessible loos on every floor, but no, they want to be in ours.

Sure I can natweb - and I just have to hope that any male who is allowed into the toilet isn't filming me/recording me to have a wank to later (or actually wanking).

I do not want male fetishists in female private spaces. You might not care that you are participating in someone else's fetish as you go about your everyday business but I do. Because I have boundaries and I know that female only spaces exist in order to protect those boundaries.

Yeah that person with a penis in the female changing room might not rape or sexually assault anyone but their behaviour could be voyeuristic / exhibitionism and I won't participate in that. And I certainly won't have my daughters exposed to it.

I can't believe I'm having to actually say this!

I misread this as " you are not entitled to your biology

Well that too apparently

Oh yes. The law ensures that trans people are protected against discrimination. Ate you saying that's a bad thing?

The law also states women are protected from discrimination. Of course such a law is not a bad thing as it is inclusive however that law stops being inclusive when a womens right to safety in a private space female only space is tossed aside for the right of a man.

Natwebb: and thank God it is another planet. Because I don't particularly like the other one at the moment.

Hermione - when the fuck did I say that find rape funny?? I find it sad that apparently so many women live their lives suspecting any human being with a penis of being a rapist. It must be exhausting.

Jesus Nat, it's not that hard to grasp.

If anyone can say they are a woman and get access to female only spaces, then hurray that's great news for transwomen.

Unfortunately it's also great news for the type of transwoman to whom trans is a fetish.
Also great news for the type of perv who'll try and play the trans card after getting caught.

Bad news for women though, as we won't know which is which, and we will no longer be able to request to keep the statistically more violent type of human away from the statistically weaker type of human in certain vulnerable situations.

Sex segregated spaces are not perfect. They don't keep females safe in all cases, and they don't provide validation to a minority who really wish they would.

But they work for the greatest number in the main. Which is why any woman should be sorry to see them go.

I reckon I would of stood a chance if the person who assaulted me with his penis didn't have hands. No male hands in female spaces could be a goer.

neon the only long term cohort study that's been done on post ol TW showed they retained a male pattern of criminality.

TW are male. So they don't belong in female only spaces . That my argument.

Yours seems to be "TW feel they're female so they should be allowed in. I don't care how that makes women feel or what risks it presents."

So trans women are opportunistic fetishists as well now?

If a man wanted to rape a woman what's to stop him just following her into the toilet?

May I just backtrack a moment and put on the table my agreement with Izzy's initial assessment of our 'go situation' right now. Izzy, I applaud your acuity.

As you were.

"I do not want male fetishists in female private spaces"

I really need to send the link to this thread to my friend Katy so she can show her trans friends. The dirty fetishists that they are. Are you serious? How do you know that a woman in the toilet isn't a fetishist who wants to film you and have a wank?

Neon - you're saving my sanity at the moment

Well neonrainbow currently women would be allowed to notice a man following them into a toilet and think huh, and leave, or ask an attendant for help, or call attention to it.

But if the law changes the woman is supposed to go oh, she must identify as a woman and I'm not allowed to object so I had better just get on with it.

If a man wanted to rape a woman what's to stop him just following her into the toilet?

Generally the fear of being seen by somebody else.
It is well known that men do not go in womens toilets therefore if one is spotted following a women in authorities would be alerted or they would be challenged.

If you take this social protection away men will be able to walk in to womens toilets unchallenged. This would lead to wonen being even more vulnerable.

nat where has anyone said they spend their lives suspecting all people with penises of being rapists?

Many of us live with men and love them.

But rape can only be committed by men and enough to men rape women that we segregate for reasons for safety. As well as privacy and dignity.

We don't want to open up women's spaces to anyon who says they "feel like a woman". Women have been assaulted and filmed as a result of these polices.

How many women is it acceptable to you to be assaulted as a result of this?

Can't you read?

I'm of the school of thought of live and let live and innocent until proven guilty. So trans people are no threat to me unless there is evidence that they are a threat.

For the record I have been raped in the past in case anyone here thinks I'm being feckless with my comments. A rapist will rape wherever he bloody well likes. I still find the discussion absurd.

I'm of the school of thought of live and let live and innocent until proven guilty. So trans people are no threat to me unless there is evidence that they are a threat.

WinchesterWoman not sure wich post but .

"I'm of the school of thought of live and let live and innocent until proven guilty. So trans people are no threat to me unless there is evidence that they are a threat."

^ This.

'Idiot' observation. You saw it coming.

nat it would be statistically incredibly unlikely for a woman to secretly film other women and get off on it. It's reasonably common for men.

Please don't start with this - we all know that the numbers of sexual offences carried out by men vs women are hugely unbalanced.

Rapists don't rape wherever they like. They wait until they know they can get away with it, as do most sex offenders.

Natwebb79, how very lovely for you that your trust in men's good intentions has never been broken.

Sadly for many women that is not the case and they view men through a different mindset, Schrodinger's rapist.