Transwoman using women's loos at work

[CharlieSierra]

I've posted a bit about this over the past few days on the MN response to Spartacus thread in site stuff, but someone suggested I start a new thread about it here.

Earlier this week I was surprised to encounter an apparently male person in the women's loos at work. I understand from a colleague that they have just started the transitioning process, and it appears from all the research I have done that there is no way to avoid them invading our space. It would be discriminatory to prevent them.
We also have showers, presumably the same applies. I plan to take it up with HR, since none of the women in the building were told this could happen, but I haven't managed to speak to anyone about it yet.
I feel angry, powerless, silenced. It's obvious using the next cubicle that they use the toilet as a man would. We will have to adapt our behaviour, hide any discomfort so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. There are unisex accessible loos on every floor, but no, they want to be in ours.

Afraid the law disagrees with you izzy.

Beachcomber - you can perform bodily functions in private in a ladies loo with cubicles. Unless you insist on having a crap with the door open? The OP's bit about how a human with a penis might hear the sound of her having a pee was a little, erm, precious if you ask me. Sorry - I know I'm on the 'Feminist chat' board which in my experience tends to be a bit, erm, 'deep, but much of this has saddened me on behalf of the trans people I know. Nothing anybody has come back with has convinced me otherwise although I sort of respect some of the views here. The 'there's no way they could have been born in the wrong body as that doesn't make sense to me even though I can't be arsed to speak to a trans person and ask them how it feels' posts have pissed me off I'm afraid.

Surely its transphobic to call all transwomen potential rapists?

No, you are born in your own body. It is your body. Anyone who has an issue with some aspect of their body being 'wrong' for them has a problem in their mind, not in their body. HTH

Afraid the law disagrees with you izzy.

And?

The law disagrees with me so i am therefore required to lay down and accept it?

60 years ago the law stated homosexuality was a crime.
100 years ago the law stated women could not vote.

Yeah the law is always right isnt it and should never be challenged

Bambam

When straight men happily accept and have sex and marry transwomen (penis/beard or no penis/beard ) then i'll accept that society/the law is fully accepting that males should be given the full status of females.

Yes me too, but also that men who will not accept a transwoman as a partner is mean/hate crime/transphobic etc.

What about hands? My mum's ex husband nearly killed her with his bare hands so should we ban hands in the changing rooms too? Or would that be ridiculous because if we spent our lives avoiding everything in case we come up against the small percentage that might harm us we'd go batshit crazy?

Bambam - have you any idea how many straight British men go to Thailand every year looking for 'lady boy' partners?

Oh my dear Lord.

What about hands? My mum's ex husband nearly killed her with his bare hands so should we ban hands in the changing rooms too?

This alone only proves i was correct with my first assumption of you.

Thank you

Hands are dangerous natwebb. Beware of hands.

Natwebb: parse me this.

Transwomen fear violence from other people with penises. They are right to do so. Womlen fear violence from people with penises. They are hateful and bigoted to do so.

What is wrong with the above paragraph?

No that didn't help Charlie. You're opinion on how a trans person should feel is about as valid as a bloke mansplaining how all women should breast feed.

Womlen=women

Looking forward to finding where the fuck are you going with that argument Nat

She is entitled to use the ladies' toilet. You are not entitled to your bigotry.

I misread this as " you are not entitled to your biology"

neon would you address my point about the law or are you just going to pretend the law is always right?

It's certainly not transphobic neon, it might be sexist.

I didn't read the post as either - it was a statement of fact. In UK law, rape can only be committed by a penis. Object rape is sexual assault. Therefore while not all men are rapists, all rapists are men. TW are a subset of men. There is no reason to think they are any safer than any other men.

Oh, and there are disturbing reports emerging of a post op TW in a Californian women's prison (I believe they are in prison for rape) who is object raping the women there.

Oh yes. The law ensures that trans people are protected against discrimination. Ate you saying that's a bad thing?

I also used to fear being beaten up by the 'hard' girls who were bullies at my old school. If I said I didn't want to be in the same room as a hard looking woman as I was afraid she might beat me up then yes, I'd expect to be told to have a word with myself or remove myself from that place and find an alternative if I couldn't get over myself.

It's not about trans people.
It's about the law being rewritten because of trans people. (3.5 % of population)
And currently the proposed changes and currently existing practice and recommendations REMOVING women's rights, freedoms, safe spaces, ability to achieve in sport, have accurate statistical data on crime, pay, employment issues and lots I can't currently think of. (50% of population)

So that's one post op person hermione. The thing is most people here are saying post op is fine because they don't have a penis. So all that story shows is that a violent criminal in prison is committing crimes against other people in prison.

Charlie: Would this be an argument you can uses?

That it's discrimination not to allow you the same protection as they allow a transwoman i.e. protection from people with penises.

Natwebb did you work out what was wrong with my para (except i spelt women wrong - not that)

While I fear I am going to regret going down this rabbit hole, yes men's hands are currently not allowed in sex segregated spaces.

And their hair

And their toenails.

But I'm glad the fact that in the UK 9 women an hour are raped is so funny to you.

Ibelieve - Oh I don't expect many people on this board to understand having read the opinions on here. It's another fecking planet