Transwoman using women's loos at work

[CharlieSierra]

I've posted a bit about this over the past few days on the MN response to Spartacus thread in site stuff, but someone suggested I start a new thread about it here.

Earlier this week I was surprised to encounter an apparently male person in the women's loos at work. I understand from a colleague that they have just started the transitioning process, and it appears from all the research I have done that there is no way to avoid them invading our space. It would be discriminatory to prevent them.
We also have showers, presumably the same applies. I plan to take it up with HR, since none of the women in the building were told this could happen, but I haven't managed to speak to anyone about it yet.
I feel angry, powerless, silenced. It's obvious using the next cubicle that they use the toilet as a man would. We will have to adapt our behaviour, hide any discomfort so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. There are unisex accessible loos on every floor, but no, they want to be in ours.

"Natwebb you are an idiot. I feel sorry for you and all who have to spend time with you"

Pahahaha. Ahhhh you're a hoot Izzy. Have you ever attempted an actual discussion or do you just have an ickle tantrum and declare anybody who doesn't agree with you an idiot? It must be hard work being that highly strung.

I should imagine their penis (which they would give anything not to have)

I'm afraid this is considered transphobic

I would be happy to have a discussion and have done so the last 14 pages.
However there is no point discussing anything with as you are an idiot.

Hope that is clear and simple enough for you to understand.

I do understand if they feel born in the wrong body but apparently I'm not meant to understand that now, it makes me anti trans....?

Oh having supported a close friend through gender reassignment and mentored 3 young adults in my job I can assure you that I don't agree that it doesn't make sense. Just because it's apparently such an inconvenient phenomenon to so many on here (and I'm still pretty stunned by this thread - it's certainly been an eye opener!) doesn't mean that to the people going through it it isn't very real. And very bloody hard.

"Also Nat, if trans is in the brain, how would we know if trans women had attacked women?"

Que??

Izzy - if you make that assumption about somebody after one post then I'm not surprised you're so comfortable with generalising a whole group of people. "You don't agree with me so you're an idiot". Right...

Lorelei - stay with me here, it's crazy stuff. The idea is that 'if the brain is female, the body is female' even if the body has a penis. Get it?

Therefore to focus on dysmorphia and physical transition is to accept that the body is male and needs to be changed. Today's trans says - no - the body is female because my mind is female. And many of today's trans are picking fights with everyone - including people who talk about or have reassignment surgery, calling them truscum and transmedicalists.

I think it depends which particular brand of Kool-Aid you drank, in order to make a decision about which particular trans trope you fancy.

Oh it has nothing to do with not agreeing with me. Plenty of posters on here have not agreed with me. Your the only one i have called an idiot and that is down to your first post.
Dont post like a twat and have a proper discussion or post like a twat and accept beinv called one.

You're talking about these human beings as if they're generic robots Winchester.

nat many TW are very happy with their penises and use them to have PIV sex

I don't want any women to be forced to share intimate space with these self declared women

Nat
And round the roundabout we go again. Try reading the thread first, particularly re the acceptance that trans girls should be allowed in gym school locker rooms, which is now happening in the US, mandated by Obama. Happy for your daughter to be forced get undressed beside random teenage males with their fully functioning penises ?

Yes Izzy, I'm sure if you weren't behind a keyboard you would be calling complete strangers idiots and twats to their faces. The over use of the ol' Anglo Saxon kind of dilutes your arguments I'm afraid.

Just because they have penises it does not automatically make them a threat.

Nat
The current thinking is you can self identify. You don't need to have medical treatment of any kind. I can go to work tomorrow and say I'm a man, call me Mr Lorelei, change the forms, refer to me as he, I'll be using the men's loo. Hey I can even say the science museum quiz made me a man because of how my brain works.

That's it. I had a feeling you might not know this from your posts?

Btw does anyone know, can HR ask for a GRC or can no one ask?

I too have to go out now folks but I will def come back to thread when I can.

Natweb - it isn't just about fear of violence.

It is also about dignity and privacy. Female spaces don't exist only to protect women from violence, they also exist so that we can be undressed or perform bodily functions in privacy. They exist so that girl children and teenagers do not have adult men eyeing them up in a completely inappropriate and disturbing way. They exist so that girls and women can have lives out of the home in relative safety and dignity.

They exist because enough men behave badly around girls and women to make those spaces necessary and legitimate.

Accepting transwomen into those spaces either means that you believe transwomen to be female (they have female reproductive systems, DNA etc,) or that you know they are not female but you think female spaces should be compromised and opened up to males.

I do wish people would OWN what they are saying when they say they are ok with transwomen in female spaces and anyone who doesn't is a hater who doesn't care about suicide, etc.

WW
Yes we are being called bigots because we refuse to believe crazy illogical horseshit

"Happy for your daughter to be forced get undressed beside random teenage males with their fully functioning penises ?"

What exactly do you think they're going to do with their 'fully functioning penis' in a cloakroom full of about 40 students and a member of staff? You talk about a penis as if it's a WMD. I'm genuinely fascinated by so many women displaying such attitudes.

Actually i do call people idiots in rl. I see no use in just being a keyboard warrior unlike yourself.

If we accept males as women/ female in womens loos - then we really have to accept them in any female space, sport, scholarships, rape centre etc - or the whole thing just doesn't make sense. They are women , just like - well women or they are not.

When straight men happily accept and have sex and marry transwomen (penis/beard or no penis/beard ) then i'll accept that society/the law is fully accepting that males should be given the full status of females.

Not necessarily. When I was at school I did a lot of after school sport and was quite often alone or with just a few other girls in the changing room.

Why do you think it's ok that these males' right trump my or other females right to feel safe and secure in changing areas.

Honestly, we had this argument about 2 hours ago. Have a look

You're talking about these human beings as if they're generic robots Winchester.

Not really. I'm talking about these human beings as if I'd read what they've written online.

Just because they have penises it does not automatically make them a threat.

Of course it doesnt but having a penis does make them men not women so they have no place in women only spaces.

Penises are the means to rape. Not all men are rapists but all rapists have penises. No penises in the female changing rooms. It's that simple