Feminist Pub XXI - The Pub with No Name

[erinaceus]

Welcome, everybody.

Happy Friday.

Hiya felas.

Offers Felas a hair-of-the-dog type drink of her choice. Yes, they are pretty bloody overwhelming at the moment, aren't they?

I never understand people who think it's feminine to be weak and need help.

I think if this is how one is socialised to be, then this is how one is, at least to some extent, no? Just because you do not remember hearing this message when you were growing up, does not mean that other people didn't. It might be difficult to imagine just how pernicious these messages can be, but if they are consistent it is difficult not to internalise them at least to some degree.

The "strong, capable" self-identity is also problematic, as you describe. If someone is not able to ask for help from others this can make life difficult for them and for those around them. I am not sure that the "strong, capable" self-identity is of itself gendered, but maybe it is, I am not sure.

Thank you for the virtual gin. Day one is over, and I have survived!

She can walk perfectly well, and the wheelchair is in the garage at present

I am trying to just be entertained at the things she says, rather than cross. So when she said she hadn't been able to eat a thing since she'd been ill, and then tucked away a massive bowl of soup, a full roast dinner, baked figs, a bowl of cereal and washed it down with a glass of whisky to "disinfect her throat from the plane germs", I just smiled to myself!

Interesting point re the femininity of weakness. She's had a hard life, was shipped over to the UK from her home country and married off at fifteen to an abusive man, had my husband by the time she was sixteen, two children by age twenty somewhere she didn't speak the language. I'm not surprised she wants a bit of looking after. And specifically, it's ME she wants to jump to it, not her son? Anyway, I'm going to try to be kind to that vulnerable fifteen year old inside.

(it may not last )

FreshwaterSelkie Does your DH have an understanding of where your DMIL might be coming from, and why it is that she looks to you and not to him to give her the mothering that she needs? My IL stopped looking to me to step into the caring role - I think it rapidly became clear that I was having none of it with them. They do look to my DH, who is a caring, maternal sort of person, and he has had this role in his family since before I was on the scene, according to anecdotes from his side of the family. It can be difficult, because DH can end up supporting everybody, both me and his parents, the sort of "strong, silent type" mentality I wrote about above, and then exhausting himself.

If your DMIL is mobile and she is eating, then those are positive things. We are here with the gin, whiskey, whatever you need to support you. When I worked caring for the elderly for a few months as a teenager, I found it rewarding. However, I was well aware that this was in part because I was not related to the people I was caring for, and I could go home afterwards. Therefore, it was easier for me to detach from it all.

Is DMIL out of the abusive relationship now? Being in an abusive relationship from the age of fifteen, sounds bewildering. Does she have a more stable living situation, at the moment?

She's been away from my husband's father for forty years now, so well clear of that, and has been for a long time. Her current partner, who's over here with her, is lovely. I wouldn't say she's elderly - she's only 70 now, so younger than my own mum. My husband & I are a team when it comes to her, though he has a slight tendency to leave me to do the grunt work. But we both giggle together about the more outrageous stuff

I'm glad to hear she has been long clear of the abusive husband. Sounds as if you have a small team around you: her DP, your DH, and her, to some extent, as long as she doesn't feel you are laughing at her, which can happen, IYSWIM. It's funny how perceptions of elderly differ. I guess I tend to categorize, perhaps because I worked with the elderly - minimum age sixty-five I think? - but really, there is some truth in the sense of someone being only as long as they feel or act.

Speaking as landlady, I've got gin, ice and lemons in stock for you, unless you prefer a slice of lime...I hope it goes okay for you all and that you have some R&R planned for afterwards. You can always come here for an angry and frustrated bounce on our bouncy castle, and a soothing beverage after...

Thank you erin. Lime please!

And yes to the age thing. My perspective is that I have friends that I go hiking and to fitness classes with that are only four or five years younger than her, so to me 70 does not seem "elderly" at all. But her outlook is quite...aged I suppose you could say?

I nearly drank Selkie's G&T last night. Instead, I ate some Doritos and went to bed early. Feel a bit better this morning.

Hi pub. How is everyone? I'm all good. Recently changed jobs and my new organisation seems very female friendly, I'm alost pathetically grateful.
Still overwhelmed by gender threads. I need to find some other feminist stuff to post! I read this today which is interesting after theach thread on here about women's studies. Maybe we need a women's studies resurgence!
www.newsweek.com/why-men-must-be-excluded-feminism-stop-it-becoming-all-about-them-504298?rx=us

Congratulations on the new job, Felas!

I am exhausted. MIL & her husband have gone home. The way I feel right now, they will not be invited back. If I started in on the free-loading, the incessant demands, the self absorbtion, the selfishness, the lying about random shit and the fucking hypochondria, I would seriously never stop.

It all culminated on Saturday night. I'd been busy all week helping to organise a local event - MIL had watched me do this, so knew how much work was going into it. Part of it was a communal meal, and I'd made sure (at some effort and cost to all involved), that a special meal was made for her that conformed to her (made up) dietary requirements. When it was served to her, she pulled a face, made a snidey comment about its appearance, did not thank the volunteer who gave it to her, then picked at it as if she'd been served a plate of worms.

After the meal was a concert given by a local celeb, it's a big deal and it was a great coup for us to be able to get this singer, she put on an amazing show and I had been really looking forward to it. The whole way through, MIL sat with a face like thunder, drumming her fingers on the table, sighing, rolling her eyes, shooting me looks, and making it clear that she found it all beneath her. I tried to enjoy it (it was a really great set), but I found it really hard to ignore MIL gurning across the way from me.

Eventually I leaned across the table, and said, "look, MIL, I can see you're not having a good time, do you want me to take you home?", and she just snapped "No I'm not enjoying myself and I want to leave".

So I left the party that I'd been organising for ages, and was really enjoying, to take the sour faced baggage home. I'd paid for their tickets, too (this is after they'd been catered for for a week, three meals a day, all specifically cooked to her list of requirements. They are NOT short of money). OK, she has had a recent spell of ill health, but so what? that doesn't give her the right to be a complete arse.

My husband was a complete star, he read her the riot act for it. She won't give a shit about my hurt feelings, but at least it's out there.

Selkie - she sounds horribly rude and self-centred. What a beastly way to behave. Hope you can have something more than a virtual g&t tonight and a good rest.

How rude! Ugh. I don't even know what to say. Hope you have a nice relaxing evening tonight.

Maybe we should run a Mumsnet Feminist Festival?

Or make our own coursera course in Women's Studies?

I still think that there is a book in this. Feminism: The Mumsnet guide.

Congratulations Felascloak on your new job.

Selkie It sounds as if not inviting your MIL back could be a wise move. It sounds as if she is really miserable and is taking it out on you, which is not on at all. I hope that you can unwind now that she has left, and maybe do things differently in the future, such as not have her to stay, or go away yourself, if your DH wants to host her, or something like that. It does sound as if the local event that you organised went well though. I hope that that achievement does not get lost in your memory of her lousy behaviour.

Thank you for the virtual support

MIL's husband just sent an email saying they are looking at houses in the area! (I live in France). Why, why, why, in the name of god, WHY?

If they move here, I'll move elsewhere. I genuinely will. It'll be a cold day in hell before I am Martha Munchausen's support system.

At least if they buy a house they don't need to stay in yours. Ever again.

Are they in the UK? Surely a hypochondriac wouldn't contemplate moving (or even having a second home) to France with the uncertainties over healthcare provision?

That's true felas, but if they want a house abroad I'd just rather ANY other country than this one! It's not even as if they particularly like my husband. They're not interested in his life, or him.

I know, right, Errol? I'm assuming it's just post holiday talk, and that the practicalities would fall at the first hurdle. I don't mean to come over too harsh, but MIL has three daughters of her own for support before she needs to come to me (only one of whom speaks to her, which is telling). I have my own family to take care of first. It takes a LOT to rile me, but this past week has left me very upset and angry.

I've started a thread (under Feminism chat) asking if anyone knows anything about LeanIn circles - my company is about to set some up and I'm wondering if I should sign up to join one. If any of you have any experience (good, bad or indifferent) I'd be really grateful if you could enlighten me as my googling isn't giving me a very clear picture whether they're a helpful idea or not.

Freshwater I am sorry to hear that news. Are you able to signpost your MIL towards support that is local to her? Are your DH and you able to present a united front in this issue?

Another option is to block her email address. This is not my style, as I am of the opinion that this is rather childish, but I do know people who have done this, sometimes to quite close family members, when they needed not to hear from them, even if the block is only temporary.

I am glad that it is Friday. The Bluestocking is always open. I have had a difficult week, and I have some plans for the weekend that I am looking forward to. There is just today to get through.

for now, later.

How is everybody? The pub was quiet last weekend.

Hi erinaceus/all. Quiet time in the pub. Depressing days.
I would definitely welcome a drink and a break from it all. Life is hard for all sorts of reasons. Mine is definitely a lovely cup of tea.

Anyone else?

Hi pub folks!

Tea yes, cake no - eggs for breakfast!