To think that women should not be referred to as menstruators and pregnant people?

[FRETGNIKCUF]

*This is a thread about the impact trans activism is having on women. This is the beginning.

Don't read on if you're going to whine about another trans thread.*

Julian Vigo (@lubelleludotcom on Twitter) wrote the following.

There is a war on women, folks. The transgender lobby has gone down the rabbit hole by refusing to acknowledge that women's lives and bodies not only matter, but that they are real. Instead women's bodies have become the simulacra in an extended theatre of male entitlement (to be women while telling women to STFU) or they are rendered an extension of male subjectivity such that we now see hairy transmen's female bodies breastfeeding, the only form of female body hair that would ever be allowed in Time magazine.

And now for the latest: we are being called "menstruators" by the same right-wing discourse which seeks to remove the mention of woman from women's healthcare across the USA (ie. now many providers have been pressured to remove the term woman and write instead "pregnant person.") It is as if the last 100 years of women's rights had never occured.

The ironies are multiple. Here you have a group which claims its own marginalisation while working steadily to marginalise an already marginalised group, women. Then you have a group of female people who by virtue of the current transgender identity doxa necessitates "gender dysphoria," yet paradoxically adheres to—and even embraces—the real and symbolic thrust of much of what the female body actually is and produces, a complete opposition to gender dysphoria. Therein lies the greatest contradiction which, not surprisingly, once again holds women hostage: woman is symbolic for those who emulate her, woman is only acceptable inasmuch as she recognises males as females, and women are now relegated to "non-males" by political parties, as "pregnant humans" and "menstruators" by females who reject their bodies yet who hold out for the double-bind of gender in this theatre of cruelty where only a [sic] "man" can truly understood pregnancy, breastfeeding, and motherhood.

The only parallel I can think of is if the KKK were to insist that the Black Panthers stop calling themselves "black", demand that their white hoods be viewed as black, assert that only white people know what it is like to experience life as a black person, and then turn around and maintain that black people are just a group of entitled, bio-essentialist racists.

Bambambini, I waded through that piece of writing and my conclusion is that it is either delusion or propaganda.

There is nothing concrete in it. Saying something doesn't make it so.

That text does not define female and male, rather it attempts to render them meaningless.

But they are not meaningless because babies. If you know where babies come from, you know what female and male are. That's all there is to it, that is all there has ever been to it and that is all there ever will be to it, no matter what Orwellian word games trans people play.

The transhopbia is strong in this site

Is it? Where?

It'd be great if you could engage about why you believe what you believe, rather than just walls o' text and insult slinging. Do you think you have a woman's brain? (I'm assuming you're female). How does that manifest?

oops, posted too soon.

And what do you think about brain plasticity and how that impacts what "sex" a person's brain might be?

You can believe what you wish but our young people are forming different views and finding their own way - just as we did. Nothing new in that.

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57c57f99e4b0cc2b92b177dd

Bambambini, just curious - have you done the SAGE test?

Bambambini that huff post link talks about GENDER.

I'm all for young (and older) people thumbing their nose at gender. I'm all for them doing it on social media and supporting each other in calling out and standing up to discrimination and ignorance.

I'm of the generation who would watch TOTP with their parents going "is that a woman or a man?". I'm all for people pointing out that gender is a social construction.

Still doesn't change where babies come from however.

Cote, you've spent an awful lot of time splitting hairs on a dictionary definition that doesn't address the point I was commenting on.

Here is the website Bambam got her information from.

it's all so clear to me now.

From that huffpost article: non binary is "someone who maybe just doesn’t feel that they fit into traditional ideas of male and female".

That is most of us right here on this thread. But non-binary people are happy, no in fact delighted, to push the rest of us who aren't cool enough to be non-binary back into the box marked "female", so the restrictions of gender close ever tighter around us all. That's not progressive. That doesn't liberate us. All the things they are fighting for are better achieved by feminism, so that we ALL get to leave the bullshit masculine/feminine restrictive boxes behind.

I've seen non-binary people push all of us "non binary" adults into the cis box too. We're too old, therefore not cool enough to be anything but cis.

Judy - More testosterone, different bone structure, bigger lung capacity different muscle mass = advantage. There's plenty of information out there. Transing and hormones doesn't erase the advantage.

And well done you for reducing the difference between a man and a woman to simply 'splitting hairs'.

Doesn't matter what older generations think, our young people think differently about these things. They live on social media and the likes of Twitter and get their information and idea of the world there.

I admit i have some reserervations about sport as i play competitively in my county leagues, but if more and more young people are recognised as trans, helped and stopped from going puberty, the physical side it will be much less of an issue. Late transitioners - we will just have to see how that goes.

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57c57f99e4b0cc2b92b177dd

Thanks for the link thedogstinks.

I had a feeling that text had been written by a very young right on MTT.

It's such a shame that things have gone this way. Zinnia asks all the wrong questions, this one for example;
Are trans women really “male” in any way that matters?

Well yes, they are, in the only way that matters.

I wish all these young people who seem to have so much time to dedicate to writing and blogging about gender would actually work within actual reality and society. If they could just drop the delusional stuff, the stereotypes, the body changing and the appropriation they would be onto something.

It's all so false and deeply conservative whilst presenting itself as something new and progressive. There's nothing progressive about misogyny, homophobia, gender rigidity and male entitlement.

Perhaps they should get off tumblr and into a lab then, and find some quantifiable differences in ladybrains?

Doesn't matter what older generations think, our young people think differently about these things.

We've all been young Bambambini. We know what it feels like to think that you and your generation are revoluntionaries who are going to change the world. It's great fun and you just know that you are right about everything. You're amazed by the ignorance and irrelevance of your parents generation. They don't understand anything!

I hope it works out for these brave young people who are messing up their bodies with drugs and surgery. In my day it was street drugs and alcohol that parents were afraid of. Now it's prescribed hormones, identity crisis and body mutilating surgery.

Still doesn't change where babies come from however. Babies are quite a big deal.
When I was young I thought the feminist battle had been won. I thought I was liberated from female oppression. I thought I could do anything. They were good times actually because it was before the internet porn explosion, neoliberalism, identity politics being a thing and transgenderism was still called being a transsexual. Then I grew up and had children and realised that although feminism had come a long way (thanks to older generations ;) the facts of life do actually matter and they hugely affect your status within current male dominated society.

the physical side it will be much less of an issue

I'm still plugging away here, Bambambini in the hope that you might do me the honour of answering one of my questions rather than just spamming links (you've done the same one twice by the way).

Do you ever wonder if the phrase above might actually not be a progressive lovely thing, but a terrible harm done to children? That by transing children, we in fact sterlise and mutilate children who would otherwise grown out of their gender dysphoria (the evidence suggests that this is what happens in 80%+ of childhood gender non conformity). Or that we're erasing a whole generation of lesbians? the research tells us that many, if not most, gay women only accept and embrace their sexuality in their late teens or early twenties. But if they've already transitioned, how could this ever happen?

Articles on detransition make for some sobering and horrifying reading.

nothing to see here, this is totally fair.

Yes, absolutely not anti trans people here. I am anti boxes ... putting people in stereotypical compartments according to what genital configuration they have. Trans doesn't solve this restrictive shoehorning, it merely does a switcheroo with the labelling on the box. Same old rigid, hierarchical stereotypes exist. Women are still chained to their box... expected to be at the kitchen sink in a pink pinny, baking cupcakes, caring for the kids and elderly parent, while holding down an underpaid caring/service industry job. Men get to ride fast cars, go out to play sport/socialise without finding a creche or babysitter, have an interesting "world-building" job like civil engineering or computer network developer... careers where there's a heavy glass ceiling and everyday harassment in the workplace to impede women's progression.

The only time genital sex is relevant is for creating babies, otherwise it should be as irrelevant as eye colour for choices in occupation, activities, presentation and role in the family regarding earning & caring. Anyone should be free to be/do/wear anything that's safe, legal and practical.

Gender is a restrictive socio cultural scaffolding built around our biological sex that creates superior and subordinate classes of people according to their role in the baby making process. Irrelevant when it comes to all other human activities... from doing the washing up to doing genetic engineering research.

But the fact that it does matter shows that the concept of gender at play means that walls are built around classes of people along materialist lines (bio sex here, but also holds for race, nationality, socio economic class & disability). As a progressivist and egalitarian, I believe in abolishing regressive structures and concepts such as these that violently hold certain segments of the population down, force them to "know their place" and as such face opprobrium for perceived uppitiness, ie asserting their basic rights. Gender impedes, only the radical position liberates everyone universally.

Bambambini I've just been reading some other threads on here where you are coming up with very different views on this issue, so either you are deadpanning this a little too convincingly or you are playing with us?

If it's a Poe, then that's quite annoying.

So no definition Bambini. How do I know what I am without one?

hemlock

I saw that as well, and one of the posts on another thread was very thought provoking

Well it made me think anyway

I worry mn is an echo chamber and i think it's fair to introduce what the Trans community believes or claims without putting a spin on it as we don't have many trans folk posting. All the posts i made earlier are all interactions i've had from trans folk. This is what the young trans community believes, where they and out children get their information. I know mostly what i think but i try to read from both sides to hopefully get a picture where each side is coming from because i'm not always 100% sure one way or another.

But what do they believe a woman is?

JudyCoolibar - sorry, I didn't make that very clear. I meant that we need a word for the sex that can get pregnant, and one for the sex that can produce sperm. 50% of the population belongs to one sex, and 50% belongs to the other. Not all women can get pregnant, but the only people who can pregnant are women. Not all men can produce sperm, but the only people who can produce sperm are men.