Safe place for budding feminists

[Mamaka]

As some of us have had our opinions, feelings and questions so completely bulldozed in other threads, I thought I'd try and start a safe place for newly questioning and of course veteran feminists to explore without fear of being misunderstood or ridiculed.

A couple of things I'd like to know:

I've just found out that there is no feminism group where I live and am seriously considering starting one but feeling a little unqualified for it. Any recommendations for where to start if I wanted to do this?

I've just read the equality illusion by Kat banyard in its entirety and now I'm feeling riled up. How can I start to move from anger and frustration towards positive action? (This is really what my previous thread should have been called!)

Well yes, that and the fury that greets women when they admit they can be scared of men potentially keeps discussions firmly off the table. I imagine if they were taken to a counselling situation or something the woman admitting she was scared of a slightly controlling sexist husband would only be fuel to the fire and would take away greatly from the topic of whether they have enabled their children to have the correct knowledge.

Its interesting Jeffrey. My husband is awesome and would be horrified if my sons were showing signs of sexual entitlement. We also share parenting/housekeeping equally (in fact he does a bit more) and so hes setting a great example.
However I doubt a more traditionally minded man would've been able to accept a relationship with me. I'm openly feminist and don't buy into loads of that stuff about acceptable cleaning standards, mums being better at childcare due to maternal instinct, women's brains etc. I suspect my DH has kind of had to engage in this kind of relationship in order to be able to live with me
I do worry about the effect of porn on how teenagers view sex though. Its one area that I really don't know how to handle

Buffy

Are you familiar with The Rosenham experiment?

I have had a counsellor that did that once and convinced me to stay with a rather obnoxious man who I later dumped after getting engaged - she was pretty useless tbh!

However, after ex (father of DC) I had a psychotherapist (moved up a bit in the world of neediness ) and she did say exactly that Buffy I think her words were "I honestly think too many sit in silence and suffer thinking it is better for the kids. I can tell you from my viewpoint and my career that I don't believe that one bit. It takes courage to stand up on your own. I think you have realised this fairly young but you have everything you need to equip you and your DC with better role models alone than with a narcissist who is emotionally abusive." I loved her .

Yes, Fela there was a very interesting documentary on sex education in schools and a lady from a Scandinavian country (sorry forgot which) came over and was horrified at how boys would only go out with shaven minge'd girls, would dump them if they refused to give them BJ's etc. The girls had been conditioned to think it was normal . It was on C4.

Notquite - I also don't understand the theory unfortunately. The long words just make me skim through and disengage. Sorry if that makes me sound ignorant! I like to learn and I love to read but don't currently have the energy to figure out all the jargon.

Buffy thanks for the book recommendation and also the suggestion (I think it was you) to look up important female people. I know about very few so need to extend my knowledge on this, particularly black and minority women.

Jacquetta - I really would love to start a group here! Would be slightly concerned about the theoretical side of it and would it end up like these threads

I had some Relate counselling and it was awful. The burden was entirely put on me to fix things. I needed to learn how diffuse his anger, I had intimacy issues.

But i have a counsellor now, quite new, helped me make my step by step plan to leave my husband (2 was ago). I spoke to her just this week about exactly those feelings. And she was really respectful of them.
I suspect not typical. I dread to think how many women are served badly by Relate.

Oh crap wrong name of experiment. You may know the study. My apologies for getting the name wrong.

The Rosenham experiment is one of my favourite pieces of research in psychiatry. From the introduction to the paper:

How do we know precisely what constitutes “normality” or mental illness? Conventional wisdom suggests that specially trained professionals have the ability to make reasonably accurate diagnoses. In this research, however, David Rosenhan provides evidence to challenge this assumption. What is or is not “normal” may have much to do with the labels that are applied to people in particular settings.

The [[http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic625827.files/On_Being_Sane_In_Insane_Places-1.pdf]] is here.

Your commend about CBT made me wonder whether an experiment that is a cross between the Rosenham study and what you describe would pass ethical review, if the CBT therapists were not aware of their part in the experiment.

I can explain the experiment a bit more here; however the wikipedia introduction sums it up, if you are interested.

Link to pdf

"Took a feminist mate to point out that it's not really that surprising that women, and feminists in particular, will struggle psychologically with living every day in patriarchy. Made a lot of sense. "

Yes!

I saw that Jeffrey. I think it was called sex in class? . It was totally eye opening that the boys really thought the girls loved a face of jizz and that consent to sex meant consent to any sex act I think she sorted them out. The end where the girls started speaking out was lovely. The presenter was awesome, I hope her GCSE does get taken forward
Link here if anyone didn't see it, it is worth a watch www.channel4.com/programmes/sex-in-class/on-demand/59856-001

Mamaka I knew little about Mary Seacole until the new statue was erected last month.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36663206

Erin that is so interesting, thanks for posting. This thread has been really informative

Yes it was a real sense of achievement wasn't it Fela? I recently did something with a large group of parents about what age we should be teaching about sex in schools. I was all for telling the correct body parts at 4 and up and control of own body etc but there was a lot of "OMG!" from some older ladies of various races. They were of the 'we don't talk about it until they are old enough to have sex or ask us' mindset and even when I asked how their children would know or explain if they had been touched inappropriately they were adamant that I was crazy. I can only imagine this is where the initiatives like that GCSE go a bit wayward.

I mentioned the race thing for a reason - namely OP expressed and interest, and while my story is anecdotal, I do wonder if culture might make things even harder for women of ethnic minorities? This group was largely from Nigeria and I have also heard some rather harrowing stories of their husbands and their ideas on women in marriage in general.

Jeffrey it definitely does. My mil is one of the loudest and most loyal defenders of men despite having been treated like a servant throughout her life. She kneels to serve her husband dinner. I can't be around it.

My Dd recently asked what the clitoris was called and what it was for (she described it as she didn't know the name).
I told her it was a Google is, that it felt nice to be touched so that it helped women enjoy sex so they'd have more sex and more babies to ensure the survival of humans. I felt very embarassed though which is ridiculous

I suspect this may have a lot to do with it - many flustered biology teachers drawing blanks because the female genitalia simply hasn't been properly studied in the same way that males have. journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001851