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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Safe place for budding feminists

376 replies

Mamaka · 21/07/2016 15:39

As some of us have had our opinions, feelings and questions so completely bulldozed in other threads, I thought I'd try and start a safe place for newly questioning and of course veteran feminists to explore without fear of being misunderstood or ridiculed.

A couple of things I'd like to know:

I've just found out that there is no feminism group where I live and am seriously considering starting one but feeling a little unqualified for it. Any recommendations for where to start if I wanted to do this?

I've just read the equality illusion by Kat banyard in its entirety and now I'm feeling riled up. How can I start to move from anger and frustration towards positive action? (This is really what my previous thread should have been called!)

OP posts:
NotQuiteSoOnEdge · 21/07/2016 17:53

Going on from that, Buffy, in practical terms, how did you get your son to where he is? OP was originally concerned for how she might affect her son. I have a 9 yr old DS who unfortunately spent his first five years watching an abusive father. I now feel I'm walking a tightrope between wanting to educate him about feminism and stop him exhibiting learned controlling behaviour, without openly criticising his father or unconsciously giving him any 'men are bad' message. I think I end up doing very little that's actually useful for fear of getting it wrong.

Quite literally, what sort of things did you actively say or do?

Batteriesallgone · 21/07/2016 17:57

Oooh. I'm pulling up a chair Smile

Mamaka · 21/07/2016 18:03

"This is an open internet site, and the incompatibility of that with the very concept of a 'safe space' has been thrashed out extensively in huge threads."

One of these days I'll get a thread title right Grin

OP posts:
0phelia · 21/07/2016 18:06

Is this about I'm starting to hate men thread?

Quite a goady starting point and unsurprising goady responses, however I do hold sympathy for your viewpoint.

Dutchcourage · 21/07/2016 18:28

buffy intresting post about the rape prevention advice, I've never thought about it like that. It's very true though.

notquite this maybe we'll off but when I left my abusive ex I spoke to dd1

Dutchcourage · 21/07/2016 18:32

Posted too soon!

I talked to her about what healthy relationships looked like between friends, adults and parents. We had an amazing grandfather that I used as an example when talking about how healthy people made us feel.

If she drew any comparisons to my ex we discussed it but I never excused it or embellished it if you know what I mean ?

StrawberrytallCake · 21/07/2016 18:33

Hi Mamaka thanks for this!

Just marking place for today, a long day has left me tired so will be back to catch up soon.

Do you think we should make a decision to not interact with posters who have ignored the safe space this thread is to provide, it might avoid derailment? Or is it better to challenge?

Dutchcourage · 21/07/2016 18:37

Yes !

Batteriesallgone · 21/07/2016 18:39

I reckon ignore.

NotQuiteSoOnEdge · 21/07/2016 18:41

Def ignore.

RebelRogue · 21/07/2016 18:45

Placemarking even though i'm not a feminist(not quite sure what i am tbh) but i do enjoy the discussions

NotQuiteSoOnEdge · 21/07/2016 18:46

I think I do. So far I've been so careful to stick to the absolute truth, but without prodding memories or giving unnecessary extra detail. But I find it hard, because if I do talk about unhealthy friendships etc and lack of respect, he'll go straight to 'daddy was like that, wasn't he'. I end up just simply saying 'yes, he was'.

RebelRogue · 21/07/2016 18:50

Notquite if i may...just correct any unwanted behaviour in your son,related to his dad or not. You don't even have to mention him. You do not demand,you ask politely. No means no be it over a sweety,a hug or whatever else. You respect everyone young,old,boy,girl etc . He is not your ex and learned behaviour can be unlearned. If it's not acceptable say so and show him what is.

RebelRogue · 21/07/2016 18:51

Sorry cross post

RebelRogue · 21/07/2016 18:54

You are not badmouthing his father,he makes the connection all by himself which i think it's good. But maybe you can focus more on what a good healthy relationship is,respect,equality etc give examples if you have in real life. Praise him when he respects other's feelings for example,and have a talk about what it's expected of him and how he should behave rather than what isn't?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 21/07/2016 18:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 21/07/2016 18:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NotQuiteSoOnEdge · 21/07/2016 18:58

Thank you, rebel.

I've made a point of never mentioning his father when he's out of line, because he himself, once he's in the teary/sorry phase, cries about how he's bad like his daddy, and how he doesn't want to be. It breaks my heart. Of course, at 9, logical reasoning and decision making go right out the window when he gets cross, so sadly we frequently go around this loop. I have no idea how to shift his deep seated feeling of innate badness.

RebelRogue · 21/07/2016 19:03

What outlets does he have for his feelings (anger,upset,confusion etc) ?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 21/07/2016 19:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RebelRogue · 21/07/2016 19:09

I agree with buffy,when he says that, tell him HE is not bad,his behaviour is,and he can choose how to behave(and offer him alternatives), talk about it and his feelings when he is calm. Acknowledging his feelings will help,but he needs help to understand that his past and his choices now do not define him forever

LilacSpunkMonkey · 21/07/2016 19:28

Just marking a place so I can read and learn!

NotQuiteSoOnEdge · 21/07/2016 19:32

Thank you, Buffy, that's exactly the thing.

That's reassuring what you've written. I'm fortunate in that I have a physics degree, and volunteer to teach maths in his school. I'm also a 'tinkerer', so I can fix bikes, plugs, electricals, do woodwork and metalwork, so he sees me doing everything. In fact, the one thing he sees me hating and struggling with is cooking.

He himself is 'atypical', hates football, does ballet, loves music, has long 'surf dude' hair, loves music and drama, writes endless stories, but also loves minecraft, aeroplanes, cars and race drivers, speed and loud silliness. I find him a fascinating mix, but he is aware himself that he's 'different' to the idea of 'a boy', and he struggles with that too. I always feel I struggle to set the tone right. I've sat on expressions like 'that's for girls', and he does fairly well at carving his own path, but it's me that struggles, because there isn't an existing role model in my head for where he's going. Just, 'not that kind of boy', anti-patriarchy if you like, is a bit of a negative target. But I have no positive ones in my life to use!

I hope you can see what I'm struggling to say, sorry if all the 'typical boy' stuff is not ok here.

NotQuiteSoOnEdge · 21/07/2016 19:39

Cross posts! (RL is inconvenient at times...)

I do very much tell him I love him, hate the behaviour, and when he cries about being bad I remind him of all his good bits, and reassure him he will grow into the man he wants to be. He seems convinced he's headed for prison. It's a slow process.

We've had a lot of help from school and CAMHS (mixed blessing), and now I just would like to know about how to do these conversations around respect, bodily autonomy, anger and violence, emotional health, the rights of women etc. All very worthy, and he's 9, so at an age to begin to process some of these ideas, but again, I'm parenting in a vacuum because none of this ever happened for me. I have no template.

tryingtomakesenseoflife · 21/07/2016 19:40

Thanks for the thread Mamaka. I too looked up women's groups in my area but there were too many! I live in a very "right on" place.

I fear my anger is probably unhealthy but I dont think it's entirely irrational. I hope that exploring ideas and increasing my knowledge and understanding will help me find a way to live more usefully with the anger and other negative feelings. Maybe even a small hope the process could be empowering.

Interested in the discussion about children as that is where my feelings could be damaging. Helpful posts already.

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