Danielle Muscato

[TheEmperorIsNaked]

How is Danielle a woman?

Just how?

Well I feel like a man. So just give me my missing pay and stop asking me about my childcare arrangements now. No I don't have a penis. Stop being a bigot.

Doesn't work so well the other way does it?

You know, thinking about it, Danielle has a point.

We accept men who make an effort to remove their beards, wear skirts and high heels and make-up, as women. Or, actually, not we (I don't), but many, many, many feminists do.

And Danielle is right: It is not the beard or the suit that makes him a man. It's the testicles and penis. Which are present in every transwoman, even if they happen to have been removed or remodeled into something resembling a vagina.

So, if a transwoman who makes an effort to pass is a woman, then so is Danielle.

Which is, of course, utter bullshit. But feminists have bought into the nonsense that transwomen are women, and Danielle is the logical conclusion of that.

Doesn't work so well the other way does it?

If I just had to wear a t-shirt with "I identify as man. Please don't harass me" to never be molested by men again, I'd so do it.

But yeah, sadly, it does not work that way.

No, it doesn't work the other way .TW like Danielle think that the magic words 'I'm a woman' entitle them to be treated like one. But there are no magic words for us to be treated as men, that's why feminism exists.

Anyway, they don't actually want to be treated as women, do they? They don't want to be dismissed, belittled and harassed. They want to be treated in a way that matches their feeling as a woman.

MrsBruceBogtrotter, japab, are you saying that women who do not agree that Danielle is a woman have 'psychological problems'?

I inferred from the OP (who could have been male or female for all I care) that they had some sort of psychological barrier/block to the notion that someone who looks traditionally masculine and/or with a beard, could be a woman. No, I do not think anyone has 'psychological problems' per se.

WilLiAmHerschel, a woman.

Do you really not see the difference between a biological woman with facial hair, and a man - a biological man - with a full beard claiming he is a woman? Really? Even you can't be that dense.

the notion that someone who looks traditionally masculine and/or with a beard, could be a woman

I don't have a problem with this. I do have a problem with the notion that a man, with XY chromosomes, a penis and testicles can be a woman. They can't. Not unless you completely 're-write the definition of 'woman' and I've never yet seen a trans supporter give a definition that makes sense.

Even if you did re-write the meaning of 'woman' to include Danielle, you'd still need a word for 'biological female'. And whatever that word is, Danielle is not and will never be one.

JAPAB you think Muscato is a woman. Could you give us the definition of woman you're working with there?

Anyway, they don't actually want to be treated as women, do they? They don't want to be dismissed, belittled and harassed. They want to be treated in a way that matches their feeling as a woman.

I think it is more that they do not want to be treated as women at all - but they don't want to be treated as men, i.e. members of the oppressor class and enablers of patriarchy.
But they also don't want to do anything to earn the trust of women, to prove that they are allies in the feminist fight.

So they just identify out of being male, and just like that, they're innocent victims ... with lots and lots of male privilege, and the shiny innocence without the nasty realities of the victim-part.

Yes Japab do you think Danielle a woman?

If you think Danielle is a woman what is the difference between men and women?

MrsBruceBogtrotter, yes there are other differences between the subset of women with an XX-chromosome and the subset with an XY-chromosome (or depending on your perspective, women and men claiming to be women), but they weren't in focus. The OP did not ask "How is someone with a penis a woman? Just how?" or "How is someone with an XY-chromosome a woman? Just how?" They essentially asked "How is someone who looks like this a woman? Just how?" Hence the examples of biological females with beards, and/or who who can be mistaken for male because of they way they look and etc etc.

And yes, even if one adjusts their expectations of how a man or woman must look this won't help with the other differences if those remain sticking points, but no-one suggested it would.

To others, I am not going to get into the definition thing again here. Just wanted to talk about the physical appearance thing.

japab there, doing the classic 'I'm not answering your questions because I'm a man and I don't want to so don't ask me'.

Why bother commenting then? You're going to get questioned on your blatant agenda of being a massive MRA.

Japab you should really go into politics. Such disingenuous responses , such dodging and diving to avoid answering the question.

You know perfectly well what the OP meant. A hirsute , even beaded woman is not going to be mistaken for a man.

LassWiTheDelicateAir If I answer that question put to me, as I have done on several previous threads after being directly asked to, then it will be met with complaints about the arrogance of a man "telling" women what women are (although seemingly OK for them to have views on what a man is, even ones that contradict my (a man) own).

You know perfectly well what the OP meant. A hirsute , even beaded woman is not going to be mistaken for a man.

Did you see my Snoop example. Sometimes they do, even without the beards.

I honestly don't know why people engage with JAQAB

So we need to adjust our thinking, set our minds to solve the 'psychological problems' involved in viewing Danielle Muscato as a woman. But trans supporters can't/won't tell us what a woman is.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm a woman because of my biology. If I have to accept Danielle Muscato as a woman, then I'm not one. I don't have anything in common with him that I don't have in common with humans everywhere.

So we're back to that discussion on a previous thread: if 'woman' No longer means what it used to, how should we refer to biological females, and how can we fight discrimination against them?

I think it would be best if we all just no platformed JAPAB.

Did you see my Snoop example. Sometimes they do, even without the beards

Yes. They are women they look like women. They are women who have to cope with a difficult health condition which I personally would hate to have. It's pretty insulting to them and the intelligence of the posters on here to suggest we can't tell the difference between them and Danielle.

Simple question - do you think Danielle is a woman? Yes or no?

LassWiTheDelicateAir, sorry, which difficult health condition does the actress who played Snoop have?

Would you really like to stake your life that you could always identify the chromosome of an individual purely from their face (whether they have a beard or not) of everyone on the planet (if we exclude intersexed people)?

I certainly wouldn't, and not just because of that one instance of mis-sexing someone I was watching on The Wire. Sometimes, even if relatively rare, some women just look like males. And some of them will even have an XX-chromosome. And vice versa for men.

Simple question - do you think Danielle is a woman? Yes or no?

Yes, although I've already said so.

JAPAB needs to go to SpecSavers.

I honestly don't know why people engage with JAQAB

RufusTheReindeer every time I do, I know I shouldn't. There's no way in hell he thinks that Danielle is a woman. He knows what a woman is. If he didn't know what a woman was he wouldn't have picked a forum predominantly frequented by women to spend his time on. He comes here because he is a sexist man and he knows exactly what a woman is. I wonder what he's like in real life. Mummy issues maybe.

I don't think Sam Escobar makes a good comparison to Danielle Muscato as she doesn't claim to be a man. If a woman did do a 'Danielle', she wouldn't get taken seriously. Certainly not on the level Dave is.

LassWiTheDelicateAir, sorry, which difficult health condition does the actress who played Snoop have?

Sorry, I confused that link with the bearded women. From one photograph, and I know nothing about the actor, she looks androgynous but female.

So you think Danielle is a woman. In that case there is no reason why you should not explain what you think the difference between men and women is. I am a woman and you have said you are a man. If Danielle is a woman what is there about Danielle which makes Danielle a woman and you a man ?

Danielle is a woman because she says so. No objective criteria is needed these days and there is no difference between feels like and is. HTH.