Danielle Muscato

[TheEmperorIsNaked]

How is Danielle a woman?

Just how?

emperor
If you decide to pretend you do not understand something and wilfully misinterpret a post then you will get rude people like me pointing out the bloody obvious.

I would apologise if I were remotely sorry. But in the same way you don't care if lass disagrees, I don't care that you think I'm rude. I do care that you were rude to lass for pointing out your hypocrisy.

As to your OP I am happy you posted it as it means I learned about atheist activism this afternoon. Til today I had never heard of Danielle. As I said before, due to her gender presentation I respond to her as a straight female, namely, I still see her as an attractive man.

Having now read her coming out statement from November 2014 that announced she intended transitioning in the near future but in terms of gender presentation, that it can take months and years, I assume 18 months on she is taking it very slowly.
Possibly she fears that public reaction to her appearance will have a negative effect on her activism/public speaking/career. ie. she won't be taken seriously. She wouldn't be the first.
www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/12/30/comedian-who-came-out-as-transgender-reverts-back-to-a-man/

I am not hostile to your OP at all, but nor am I hostile to the trans community.

I wonder what has happened to MN moderation.

In the olden days, if a poster said Transwoman Clare is a man, or say things like 'Clare and his beard' their post would be deleted.

Yet this thread is full of posts using the 'wrong' pronouns and calling Danielle a man that have not been deleted.

I wonder why.

It is rude to answer on another poster's behalf, particularly when your previous posts indicate that you are hostile to the OP's POV. I don't care if you disagree, hence me pointing out that you're not a moderator here

Point to the posts where either I or Kimmy (I'm not sure which of us "your " is referring to )have been hostile to the OP's point of view.

In the olden days, if a poster said Transwoman Clare is a man, or say things like 'Clare and his beard' their post would be deleted.

Nobody reporting them anymore as so many have had their views changed.

Every time one of these threads comes up, particularly if it is not on FWR but on somewhere else on the thread, the whole notion of the 'female penis' is mentioned.

And then a number of women will be WTF?

It will be explained to them that most trans women have a penis.

And they change their minds about trans women. Because the whole thing has been based on keeping women in ignorance.

Here's another Danielle-type transwoman with evolving feelings.

LOLOLOL this person is really upset because they're constantly misgendered.

Because people assume this person is male, because er, ...

Well, you judge for yourself.

Sarah /Will Franken got loads of press coverage during last year's Edinburgh Fringe.

Stand up comedy isn't my thing so I've no idea if she /he was (a) funny and genuinely exploring transitioning (b) not funny but genuinely exploring transitioning (c) funny but just using the idea as a USP to distinguish her/ his show from the zillions of other Fringe comedy shows or (d) neither funny nor genuine.

So far as (b) Andrew O'Neill for example is a transvestite who makes a very serious point about what men can or can't wear or look like and the prejudices against men who present they way he does. Unfortunately he is not very funny.

Oh and the animals in the vid identify as dogs. VarmitCoyote has wilfully misidentfied them, meaning VC is actually killing them.

I just can't take any of this shit seriously anymore. I thought I'd reached peak trans months ago, but it turned out I hadn't.

Basil If you had shown me that video with no background information I would have assumed it was either a parody or performance art.

I think you are all being harsh on the rather fragrant Danielle. Clearly it is her inate love of cupcakes, kittens and being paid less (a lady brain if you will) that undoubtedly makes her the woman that she is today.

Kimmy I did not pretend to misunderstand JAPAB's post. I answered him and then typed 'what's your point?' after because I wanted him to get down to the nuts and bolts of the issue.

I think it is rude to answer on behalf of another poster, particularly when your view opposes that of the OP.

How have I been hypocritical? I use MN because it is a mostly self-moderated board. I like the robust debate that goes on here. If I am out of order then feel free to report me.

I don't know what atheist activism is. I am agnostic.

Your last paragraph goes on to talk about Danielle's transition and I really couldn't give a shit about that so I'll leave it there.

Danielle has commented on his transition (There is no way I was using "she", I did try to type "their", but I can't, I just really really can't use anything but "his"):

"If you think I am "less" of a woman, or NOT a woman, because I don't fit your mental picture of what a woman "should" look like, or what body parts a woman "should" or 'shouldn't" have, news flash: your mental description of women is not only inaccurately narrow, but anti-feminist and bigoted as well"

That is verbatim from his facebook. If anyone is thinking, oh surely this must be satire, he can't mean it, I can assure you that he absolutely, definitely does mean it. So SHUTUPWOMEN, with your reductive bigoted notions of what constitutes a woman, Danielle is here to tell you that you're wrong, and he is just as much of a woman as you are because HE SAYS SO. Also, you're feministing wrong, and Danielle is happy to explain to you why that is, too, so shoosh now while he tells you how you should be doing it.

That said, my terfy little heart is quite glad that Danielle is trending all over the internet, because this will without doubt tip some more people over into the gender critical space. It is very, very hard to get behind Danielle without openly shitting all over women.

IKR?

You just couldn't make it up.

It's gone beyond parody now.

Danielle and Coyote. Not forgetting Justin the male lesbian.

I haven't yet come across one who identifies as a heterosexual transgender woman, telling men they're transphobic for not wanting to sleep with a woman with a peen.

But I am waiting with joyful anticipation.

To be fair, shitting all over women is not usually a disincentive

Danielle has also written an article for Richard Dawkins' website about gay marriage, as Danielle is a gay woman.

I still want to know what makes Danielle a woman though:

It's not the beard or the male pattern baldness. It isn't the shirt and tie because I could wear that and I wouldn't become a man. it's not the genitals because even thinking about what kind of genitals Danielle might have is perverted (so I've been told). It must be the soul.

Danieille Muscato just have a lady soul.

That's true, basil. I was thinking about libfems, who should in theory not be quite as open to shitting on women.

I was not aware that Danielle also fancied himself a lesbian, but why am I not surprised? Why wouldn't he be?

It is interesting about Danielle's atheism, given that he is fully subscribed to the religious doctrine of trans. It takes some front to tell other people that their religion is made up nonsense, and then require them to believe that he is a woman.

Innit though.

Just when you thought you'd reached the peak of Trans-mountain....

I'd quite like to drop out of the whole gender argument. I was born with two x chromosomes and ovaries. I have given birth to two children. I don't think I could spare the time this level of introspection and soul searching deciding which gender you are seems to need, and if I could, I don't think I could be bothered.

"I still want to know what makes Danielle a woman though:"

Me too.

Here's a (non-exhaustive) list of things that are common to women that Danielle knows fuck all about:

Expecting your first period
Dreading your first period
Getting your first period
Horror at being on your first period
Realisation that these periods will keep coming
Fear of becoming pregnant
Fear of not becoming pregnant
Being pregnant
Being told what you can't do (by fucking everyone) when you're pregnant
Having strangers grab your pregnant stomach for luck

The list goes on and fucking on ...

It is interesting about Danielle's atheism, given that he is fully subscribed to the religious doctrine of trans. It takes some front to tell other people that their religion is made up nonsense, and then require them to believe that he is a woman.

Yeah, I am amazed at the capacity for double-think that requires.

I mean, I respect people's religious beliefs as long as those religious beliefs don't harm me.

And then there are people who quite openly disrespect religious beliefs, and then ask that their very, very harmful, own beliefs be respected.

Regarding women with beards ... I can grow some stubble ... no one would mistake me for a man. Ever.
Danielle doesn't look like a woman with a beard, Daniele looks like a very, very regular dude and will surf on a wave of male privilege all the damn time.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Japab come off it. Even from those mug shot photos you cannot seriously think there is any comparison between the 3 women and the person called Danielle.

If by that you mean that underneath the beards they look more traditionally feminine than Danielle does under hers, then yes. Although if we turn our attention to the rest of the face there surely are people the OP would accept as women but who do not look so immediately recognisably female.

If you have ever seen The Wire in the fourth season I thought the character Snoop was male, due to way she looked and talked. YMMV of course, and you may look at the picture I will post below and think 'what are you on about, she is just so obviously female', but when a someone referred to 'a girl named Snoop' it did surprise me.

villains.wikia.com/wiki/Snoop

(and especially imagine if she had the female beard thing)

I am sure there are people out there who do get mis-IDed due to their faces. Maybe if the OP found some examples of such people that do not look traditionally female but she would accepts as being so, then this too might help with the psychological problems of accepting that someone can be one while externally resembling a more traditional look of the other.

And yes, I did mean that a biological female saying she is a man despite her bits and bobs would be treated the same, ie taken seriously not classified as mentally ill.

I've known a couple of trans women. Of the old kind, the ones who were desperately unhappy with their body and life and were prepared to accept as good as they could get rather than live as they were. It wasn't about anyone else but them. When they came out as trans, it wasn't demand, it was a hope and a wish.

They both put all they could into looking feminine, we're talking shaving twice a day, even before they came out and started the rest of their transitions.

I look at Danielle and I don't see that. I don't buy it. I see someone looking for a way to make people listen to him and do his will.