Danielle Muscato

[TheEmperorIsNaked]

How is Danielle a woman?

Just how?

And yes, I did mean that a biological female saying she is a man despite her bits and bobs would be treated the same, ie taken seriously not classified as mentally ill.

Tsk slap my own wrist for misgendering a hypothetical person there.

japab, are you saying that women who do not agree that Danielle is a woman have 'psychological problems'?

redannie about how your sister was treated.

red Sadly this sort of story isn't uncommon. Women are treated very badly by the medical profession, in my opinion.

JAPAB do you think Danielle is a woman or a man?

JAPAB do you think Danielle is a woman or a man?

I'm curious whether anyone has seen examples of the reverse - someone who presents as typical female aesthetically ('very' female, if there is such a thing, the reverse of Danielle and Danielle's typical 'very' male appearance) but who identifies as male and wishes to be treated as a man, despite clear outward feminine appearance?

Ugh, I've not worded that well and I know my post will probably be ripped apart, but what I'm trying to say is what if someone who looks like Kylie were to come out as male without changing appearance? "Please call me Kyle from now on as I identify as male"

I'm trying to get my head round all of this. I'm not a regular poster on feminist chat but I read a lot of the posts as I find it all very interesting (and important!)

I struggle to understand why Danielle wouldn't try to change Danielle's appearance to outwardly present as Danielle feels inside. But, I suppose you could argue, why should Danielle? Should we tell Danielle how Danielle should look? I'd be furious if someone told me I don't look feminine enough (I really don't lol). But then, I have a vagina and boobs so that helps.

Danielle can do whatever the hell Danielle likes, it's just that that won't make Danielle a woman. We're not prescribing what Danielle should look like, just that this case highlights the extreme of the self - identification trans narrative.

I was amused that Danielle retweeted someone who quoted "if it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, acts like a duck then it is a duck." Well he looks like a man, acts like a man, has genitals like a man so....

Your post is very clear. I was wondering that too.

I don't claim to be Kylie's equal in the looks department but I'm very feminine in appearance. I was wondering, having read this thread, what would happen, if making no difference to the way I look I announced I am a man.

Japab If Danielle is a woman what is the difference between men and women?

If a transwoman passes, they get to experience half of one facet of what being a woman is. They get to know what it's like for people to react to you as a woman.

Say a passing transwoman is catcalled. We all know what Paris Lees thinks about catcalling.

But the transwoman doesn't have the knowledge that they have female biology, they have a different worry, their male biology and the danger from violent men who may harm them if they find out about it. On top of this they don't have female socialisation to minimise, not overreact, not react at all.

There is no way for a man to experience any other facet of womanhood.

So when a man declares themselves a woman and makes absolutely no effort to pass, quite the opposite, Danielle is holding on to every last scrap of male privilege. It's the same as non-binary people. They make zero permanent changes to their lives - maybe a name change or insisting on pronouns, changes they can easily shed - but claim to have 'literally zero rights' and to be oppressed.

Perhaps Danielle is a radfem invention to hurry along peak trans? I don't know how anyone can go along with it, he's a gift really.

"Maybe if the OP found some examples of such people that do not look traditionally female but she would accepts as being so, then this too might help with the psychological problems of accepting that someone can be one while externally resembling a more traditional look of the other."

This is a really classic technique men use to gaslight women: imply that they have psychological problems if we refuse to accept their distortion of reality.

It's good that Japab is here, he provides excellent case study evidence for women to study and recognise the behaviours when they come across it in RL in other contexts.

Also women have no difficulty whatsoever, in accepting that sometimes, biological men look like women and biological women look like men.

We know that it doesn't matter how they externally present because we understand that gender is culturally constructed and some people choose to reject their culturally allocated gender. This makes no difference to their sex and we have no psychological issues with this. However much misogynists may try and pretend that we're mad.

Karaoke, ask and you shall receive...I present Sam Escobar

They seem to be quite...confused. And a bit cross.

Though, that said, Sam doesn't quite fit the bill as they identify as neither male or female, whatever in holy hell that means in these dark times.

It's all such such bullshit. The word woman will become completely meaningless.

Also women have no difficulty whatsoever, in accepting that sometimes, biological men look like women and biological women look like men.

We know that it doesn't matter how they externally present because we understand that gender is culturally constructed and some people choose to reject their culturally allocated gender

I think most people don't find it difficult to recognise a very masculine looking women is still a woman and a very feminine looking man is still a man.

Interestingly, today I've been told that sex is a spectrum and that this spectrum is defined by having fertile women at one end of it, and fertile men at the other. I was told this by someone who is insistent that Dani is a woman.

This made me fume on two fronts.

Firstly, it implies that infertile women are not actually women, but something in between male and female. And so, presumably, post-menopausal women are also lesser women, because they are no longer fertile. Women who have had hysterectomy are lesser women in their eyes. But they aren't quite men either.

Secondly, it completely ignores the fact that women are not oppressed because they are ACTUALLY fertile, otherwise it would be possible to produce a certificate saying that you have no ability to become pregnant and magically all oppression would then end.

(Thirdly, I thought it was people who understood science who were accused of thinking women born without the ability to procreate weren't women? Which of course they are. Maybe whoever is putting this particular crock about didn't get the memo?)

I've read the Sam Escobar article before and my response is still -"sorry you seem to be labouring under the delusion that you are interesting. I have no interest in what is in your pants but your vacuous thought process and your sense of self-importance are breath taking"

She reminds me of Miley Cyrus' human fashion accessory whose name I can't recall and can't be bothered googling. If you remember it's Miley's friend who was born a girl, transitioned to being a boy who wears dresses and then to being agender but who seems to have no function other than to partner Cyrus to show how cutting edge Cyrus is. Like Escobar they were also obsessed with the idea that everyone else was obsessed with the contents of their underwear. The Guardian ran a 5 page weekend article about Cyrus' chum - many of the comments on it assured them the readers had no interest at all.

I wonder sometimes if it would take a large volume of women self identifying as male but making no attempt to actually present as male to make people wake up to the ridiculousness of self identification laws.
just throw this crap back at them, go en masse and sit in places like male sexual health clinics, demanding services are tailored to our male vaginas. Use the actual law change to legally demand access to male only sports/golf clubs. get a float at pride and call themselves the gay mens collective, basically anything that would highlight the absurdity of it.

Meddle I think that women claiming to be men will just be dismissed as crazy, or (more likely) as 'not really trans, only pretending to make a point'. By the same people who are vicious in their defense of transwomen.

I,ve no doubt they would, and its kind of the point of that type of action, to expose how ridiculous self identification is, but by that point the law would be on our side and it wouldnt matter whether they thought we were or weren't real.

I do hope Sam Escobar is an upright law-abiding citizen.

As what is in their pants is no one's business othercthan theirs and they refuse to "identify if they are a man or a woman" should they ever be in the position of facing a custodial sentence they presumably won't mind if they are sent to a men's prison.

Agree with lass

I have no patience with people like Sam

I am sure they are lovely but i am not misgendering anyone if i dont call them them

Such a first world look at me issue,

"if you dont know what pronoun to use just ask"

Fuck off