Trans people to be JAILED in Alabama town if they go to "the wrong toilet"

[katmanwho]

Unbelievable. There has been a lot of hate recently in North Carolina with the bathroom bill. But this has got a lot worse. [ www.al.com/news/anniston-gadsden/index.ssf/2016/04/oxford_passes_law_aimed_at_tar.html]

So a transwoman will have to go the male bathroom. A transman in the female one. There's been cases of butch women being hassled already in female toilets.

Oh - and if you're in North Carolina and witness someone who you think is in the wrong bathroom, you can call the hotline.

Meanwhile, a convicted sex offender (who is also Ex Republican House Speaker) is allowed to go the male bathroom with boys.

The only good thing about this bill is that it's made people react to the discrimination and to show that many people think this is discrimination. Just like in the 60s. Apparently trans people are sexual deviants.

This is the real effect of hate.

Joy the recommendations of the committee are exactly that. Trans people would be exempt from people stipulating male or female for intimate care.

"Actually needing and wanting is different.
Majorities can be wrong. "

So your argument is that women don't know what they need and should be forced to share toilets and changing rooms with men.

Let us know how that line of reasoning goes for you. I would recommend a hard hat.

The problem is that Transgender covers such a mixed cross section of people .
We have rules that give advantages to disabled people - no one will argue with that - but they don't self decide on whether they are disabled or not, they jump through a myriad of official, formally tested hoops to get their meagre privileges.

My worry is that we make broad sweeping legislation and inadvertently cause future problems and disadvantage others.

Getting legislation changed once it is in place is imo harder than implementing it. And when you have famous individuals demanding stuff, influencing the lemmings on twitter, facebook it becomes scary. Big Brother isn't Government, it is the faceless social media terrorizing people into shutting up.

A tiny nod from the pro transgender movement that there are issues which need discussed and debated in an attempt to find a solution acceptable to more people would be reassuring, but no - it's quite the opposite and anyone with views which don't follow their demands is quashed. Then the only people who you do hear from are those with the extreme opposite views, so you get jailing - and people like me have to decide between following the bullying pros or the extreme right wing nos.

I work in a special school. Males can toilet our boys/young adult men as long as they do it with a female.
No men are allowed to toilet girls/young adult women. Whats going to happen if we get a male identifying as a woman?

Lweji - YES.

I think Joy and Treacle have the persuasive arguments for same sex segregation but my own feelings are in line with the majority and that's democracy for you! So YES!

Incidentally, if I felt like a sheep, wore a sheepskin coat and ate grass would I be banned from both bathrooms in your world? A crass argument maybe but if I had to visit a city I can hardly crap on the pavement however much I identified as a sheep. Because I'm not a sheep.

Maria miller proposes that will be absolutely fine. Please raise this with your mp before it is too late if you do not agree

All this talk about men in female prisons, pah, you lot are so soo unenlightened

We don't need prisons at all.

In fact we don't need police either,! because If criminals were going to commit crime they would have done it by now

Oh, some have you say?
But not all of them, and I've spoke to non criminals and they have a deep inner feeling that they'd never commit a crime.

WHY CAN'T YOU OPEN YOUR MINDS?!?

Joy that is terrible

And men stink.

If criminals were going to commit crime they would have done it by now

Actually, 'criminal' is an out-dated term. The word 'criminal' has been redefined to mean 'person who has the right to decide that what they did wasn't illegal', and we all have to accept that self-identification.

After all, 'laws' are simply socially imposed constructs, and as such they have no real meaning

sow

Lewji you normally tall a lot of sense, what has happened today? Genuine question.

Changing rooms is shops are normally staffed by shop assistants and have individual spaces with doors and, of course, unlike toilets they have no central hand washing area, They open immediately onto the shop (unlike shop toilets) and are only in use when shops are open (unlike public toilets).

They are different.

And personally I'd still rather they were sex segregated.

Please ask me of my points are unclear. I am trying to preview post but on phone and some mistake still get through! you normally talk sense

My comment to peeking was a typo! That was to you Lewji.

This thread is making me want to cry. I was the victim of a physical assault in my 20s and the trauma has never fully left me. In the immediate aftermath I could not cope with men at all. I quite literally went to lectures, hid in the library, and then stayed at home. My 'student-life' was completely non existent.

I could not have coped, psychologically, with having to deal with male doctors nurses counsellors. I would not have been able to cope with a man who 'sort-of looked like a woman' either but was quite obviously at one time a man, regardless of how they self-identify. I cannot explain why I felt that way because even then I knew that all men were not a threat to women. But that's how I reacted.

The experience changed my life, my career path, everything. Recently a rapist was released from jail early and rehomed in our area. The community went crazy and demanded he was moved - mob mentality - and that's how I knew he was there. I didn't engage with that. But BANG there I was, regressed 20 years, unable to leave the house, terrified.

I expect in this state of vulnerability to have my deep fears respected. If I was told that I had to, for example, give evidence to a make police officer, I would not have made a report. End of.

My DH understands this. He doesn't take from it that I hate men, that I assume he is a potential rapist, that I think most men are abusers. He is not offended that in this context it is inappropriate for my mental health for men to be there. If transgender people are incapable of similarly recognising that there are some contexts where their historical background could be massively psychologically detrimental to women, then they are lacking a level of human sensitivity that is utterly breathtaking. If this was imposed on me in a case of tolerate it or deny yourself access to safety, justice etc etc, then I would see this as an additional form of abuse against me.

I'm glad that some of you are willing to strip off Scandi-style in front of men. Good for you! But if I were left with no option but to do that, it would destroy me. Or I would be trapped at home. As would the many many women treacle referred to too. If you can't understand that - or you want to minimise that - then frankly, I have no idea what to say to you.

Cakey, I'm really sorry to hear what you've been through. I hope that your recovery is full and real and lifelong.

So, we've established that there has been one documented case of a man usurping trans visibility to attack women, in Canada. We have established that many women are scared of this happening again. Is that a fair assessment? Sorry if I've missed anything - no deliberate ploy here, just popping online in between other stuff.

Cake I am so sorry this is triggering for you. Please please do write to your MP and Maria Miller and explain why the new laws leopard are dangerous and are detrimental to your and other people'a mental health. Will post the link to further information tonight.

Proposed not leopard!!!

No tea that is gaslighting

tea did you not ser the massive list upthread?

And since you're back, could you answer the question that has been put to you several times but have so far avoided? It's like Michael Howard all over again.

teafueledradical please please read the links. There have been Manu multiple cases of men identifying as trans a d or dresses in 'traditionally female' clothes attacking and raping, spying on and filming women. Not one incident. Many.

tea telling women we have nothing to fear from predatory males is what predatory males do. Check the company you are in here! Who benefits from this minimization? The very small number of genuine trans women? How will they benefit once any man who SELF identify a as a woman can also use those facilities.

Although your mention of men usurping transgender id to attack women did remind me of Kristen Lukess, the paedophile rapist transwoman about whom who the judge said 'you disguised yourself to get around the prohibitions which had been placed upon you'
Was that the kind of 'usurping' you were thinking of?
Tbh that sounds a bit transphobic of the judge. Kristen could well be genuine in their wimin feelz. Sadly she was sent back to a male prison.

To be fair of course, he usurped trans id (if not genuine) to attack female children not women

tea I know you don't want to answer lots of questions and that is fine. Can you just answer one for me, can you see why most women don't want the sex category of female to be redefined to include anyone who says they feel female?