Trans people to be JAILED in Alabama town if they go to "the wrong toilet"

[katmanwho]

Unbelievable. There has been a lot of hate recently in North Carolina with the bathroom bill. But this has got a lot worse. [ www.al.com/news/anniston-gadsden/index.ssf/2016/04/oxford_passes_law_aimed_at_tar.html]

So a transwoman will have to go the male bathroom. A transman in the female one. There's been cases of butch women being hassled already in female toilets.

Oh - and if you're in North Carolina and witness someone who you think is in the wrong bathroom, you can call the hotline.

Meanwhile, a convicted sex offender (who is also Ex Republican House Speaker) is allowed to go the male bathroom with boys.

The only good thing about this bill is that it's made people react to the discrimination and to show that many people think this is discrimination. Just like in the 60s. Apparently trans people are sexual deviants.

This is the real effect of hate.

tea its you who started by referring to suicide attempts as a reason why transpeople should get their own way. Your logic appears to be that they are more under privileged because of this. Dont start something then go off crying 'crass' when you are pulled up on it.

No.

I'm saying that, for the most part, most female only spaces have no particular reason to be female only. Such as toilets with individual cubicles or shop changing rooms.
That more "intimate" facilities, such as bedrooms and open showers, carry a risk for many people. Including within the same sex for men and for women. As such, people should be given the choice to share (same or different sex) or not with other people.
And that within larger facilities, such as prisons, there are ways of safeguarding people, as within schools, swimming pools, boarding schools, hospitals, etc.
And that sex segregation alone is too crude.
And that convicted rapists and paedophiles of either gender often require (and are given) additional separation measures both for their protection as the rest of the inmates. It should happen in prisons regardless of the majority sex.
It's fine to use biological sex segregation as a starting point, as is gender segregation as a starting point. But if our main concern is safety, then other parameters should be (and many times are) used additionally, or realise that most sex segregation as currently practiced is as arbitrary as segregated schools.

Coco, someone will be along in a minute to insist that 'Stephonknee' is more at risk from others than a risk to others. Hell yeah, let's all invite him to a sleepover. He poses no more risk than anyone else with a penis

"I'm questioning if segregating by sex is working and if it's really safer for anyone."

It's working just fine for me, too.

"Sex segregation is crude and has basically ignored all different types of sexuality."

Sexuality has nothing to do with it. We are not going to send a lesbian into men's changing rooms because they all like women there. what you are suggesting is nonsense.

"We'd say to most men that sharing showers with gay men is fine. But surely it can be as worrying for a straight man, as it is for a woman in relation to a straight man."

Men can defend themselves against each other much better. Anyway, that is a problem for men to solve among themselves.

Probably Ruthy, the Candian goverment seemed quite taken with him.
And of course his 'adopted mum and dad' are happy to have their young granddaughter play with him.

Not forgetting his new dad also likes to have sex with him.

"most female only spaces have no particular reason to be female only. Such as toilets with individual cubicles or shop changing rooms."

Says you.

Anyway, that is a problem for men to solve among themselves.

Absolutely. Why do women have to accommodate all male requests AND solve male-male problems on their behalf too?

Not forgetting his new dad also likes to have sex with him

That might be the most shudder-inducing sentence I've ever read

I welcome a debate on if segregating by sex is working. Threads on here show how outraged people are by 9 year old boys in girls changing rooms. Personally I would welcome a more scandi style approach to nudity. I think i am v much in the minority though. Ask and lets find out.

Says you.
That works brilliantly as an argument.
Is there any evidence of increased attacks in mixed changing rooms in shops?

It's not an argument. It is fact.

You think women don't need those female-only spaces. Go ahead and do a poll if it is news to you that the vast majority of women disagree with you.

I'm sure sex segregation is working for women.
But if we were used to less sex segregation it would probably work too. Mixed changing rooms seem to work too.
What then?

Btw, my comment about sharing bathroom with a brother was in relation to a previous pp saying she wouldn't undress in front of a brother. Not all of us have those hangups.
It's a psychological thing, no other particular reason than conditioning.

Imo it's the absence of men which makes it easier to make a decision as to whether a public city centre toilet is safe at say 2am when no one's around.
If you saw men loitering in there you might not feel safe entering.

After the change in law there might be men in there and they might be transgender or they might not.

The result could be women peeing behind bushes or up alleyways which is unsafe also.

Or everyone using the disabled toilets instead.

And that still leaves the most important question of will MtF transgendered people lift the seats before peeing? Will they leave the seats up?

Its about what people want, cultural norms, in some cases and in others about practicalities. The pressure for single sex wards is an example of what the majority of british people apparently want. If you want unisex hospital wards thats fine but you are not in the majority it would appear

You think women don't need those female-only spaces. Go ahead and do a poll if it is news to you that the vast majority of women disagree with you.
And...?
Actually needing and wanting is different.
Majorities can be wrong.
It just shows that many women perceive that separate changing rooms is safer. Not that they actually need it to be safe.

Prisons and domestic violence shelters i wouldnt even begin to presume to advocate for unisex facilities. If the people who know those areas best feel that unisex would be a safer and better environment, i respect their judgement. I dont think most do though? (Anyone know?)

Calling other peoples boundaries 'hangups' is sneery, dismissive and unpleasant.

I wonder what effect the proposed new legislation will have on jobs that are currently exempt from gender discrimination laws?

I have a relative who is physically disabled, she lives in her own home but has carers going in twice a day to assist with personal care. At the moment she can legally insist on female only carers in the same way that a male can insist on male only carers.

My relative was actually the victim of a serious sexual assault by a male care assistant some years ago, she'd gone into respite care for a number of weeks, she is utterly vulnerable and unable to defend herself.

Are people like her seriously going to be forced to accept males in her own home, washing and dressing her and changing her sanitary towels, because some of you don't mind a trans-woman using ladies loos?
If someone with a penis joins the care agency and says they feel like they are a woman should they be sent to female or male clients?

Safer or not, the bottom line is that when I was a teenager, my parents would simply not have allowed me to go swimming etc if there had been naked males in the changing rooms. It was completely unacceptable in my upbringing to see a member of the opposite sex naked, and all my friends families would have been the same. This was probably influenced as much by religion as anything. But whether you agree with that or not, if you consider it a hang up or a normal approach, the outcome of allowing male bodies to access female spaces is that significant numbers of females will be unable to use them. How can that be fair?

lweji i would much prefer it if the debate was more open in the way you suggest - do we as a society feel ready for unisex facilities or not
Its like the way (men) the transgender lobby has managed in about 2 years to highlight the fact that most companies dont actually need to know our (biological sex) gender feelz. I welcome a more unisex environment in some ways eg not having to declare ms/miss/mrs vs the only option for men of mr. Why do we need any title at all?
A poll to see how people feel about unisex and do we want to move that way, great
Division by feelings - when did we decide that???

Joy that's exactly what could happen. And if she protests your poor relative will be told tough, suck it up, not all men, you're hysterical, I don't mind being naked in front of a trans woman, you're the one with the problem, why such hangups? ........etc.....and so on.

Its a debate for everyone. Its not just females who do not want their space invaded. Many men did not want unisex hospital wards either. My grandad in hospital hated it

Just a thought. Let's say for argument a woman walks into the female communal changing room and sees what to her is obviously a male but decides that this person may identify as a woman. So she decides to act as if this person was a woman. She strips off to get changed (or maybe go into the shower, who knows) and this person attacks and rapes her. What do we think the fall out would be?

Considering even in the most enlightened countries we still like to blame victims for their own attacks, would the general consensus be that she should have known better than to be naked in front of a male? That she induced the attack because she 'got naked'?

I appreciate that if the person did actually identify as a woman it would be reported as a woman on woman attack, but once the tabloids got hold of it or a picture was printed, would the narrative change. Would the focus be on her and her poor judgement.

As a consequence, where does that leave women in general in this specific instance other than just up poop creak without a means of propulsion?

peeking please please tell me you don't work in a female prison or anywhere where women'a safety may be an issue. Your judgment is seriously way off base and your concern for the safely of a rapist in a fake prison is sickening.

Sorry that should be female not fake obviously!