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Original poster

Trans people to be JAILED in Alabama town if they go to "the wrong toilet"

999 replies

katmanwho · 28/04/2016 16:53

Unbelievable. There has been a lot of hate recently in North Carolina with the bathroom bill. But this has got a lot worse. [ www.al.com/news/anniston-gadsden/index.ssf/2016/04/oxford_passes_law_aimed_at_tar.html]

So a transwoman will have to go the male bathroom. A transman in the female one. There's been cases of butch women being hassled already in female toilets.

Oh - and if you're in North Carolina and witness someone who you think is in the wrong bathroom, you can call the hotline.

Meanwhile, a convicted sex offender (who is also Ex Republican House Speaker) is allowed to go the male bathroom with boys.

The only good thing about this bill is that it's made people react to the discrimination and to show that many people think this is discrimination. Just like in the 60s. Apparently trans people are sexual deviants.

This is the real effect of hate.

Trans people to be JAILED in Alabama town if they go to "the wrong toilet"
OP posts:
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23
HermioneWeasley · 01/05/2016 09:37

lweji nope, don't need any of that, thanks. I'd just like to keep spaces that are currently segregated on the basis of sex to continue. Even if those men are perfectly lovely, I don't want to undress in front of them.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 01/05/2016 09:37

continues to baffle me how the very vocal trans activists claim to feel that they are women, want to be women, and yet ultimately they seem to have nothing but scorn for women. They are scornful of the fact that women feel safer in some circumstances when they are in female only spaces and adamant that their feelings are more important than women's feelings

It's male privilege mixed with feelings of I believe jealousy and hatred for themselves. Surely it healthier to accept you can't be what you are not because others will not see you that way and to accept being a trans women is ok but that is not the same as being a women

Lweji · 01/05/2016 09:37

lweij why do we bother to have sex segregated prisons at all by your logic?
Well, yes.
Sex segregation is a crude and generic measure.
There are no 100% female prisons, as there are always male guards.
Vulnerable people are jailed with violent people.

Lweji · 01/05/2016 09:39

If you equate the presence of a male prison guard with the same degree of risk to women's safety as the presence of a convicted rapist, God help you.
It's not the same, but by people's reasoning here males are always a risk.
Male guards abuse is not unheard of at all.
And you haven't addressed the fact that most likely he'd be kept separately, as in a male prison, and the risk to himself among violent female inmates.

Lweji · 01/05/2016 09:42

I don't want to undress in front of them.
Neither do I.
But see the rest of my post.
Are you OK undressing in front of a lesbian?
Are gay men a problem?

HermioneWeasley · 01/05/2016 09:47

I am fine undressing in front of other women, regardless of their sexuality.

I wouldn't want to undress in front of a gay man. It's about privacy and bodies for me, not sexuality.

I wouldn't feel comfortable being naked in front of my brother, and I'm certain he'd feel the same.

treaclesoda · 01/05/2016 09:47

If a prisoner is going to be kept separate in a women's prison then why not just keep him separate in a men's prison instead?

RuthyToothy · 01/05/2016 09:49

Oh so all paedophiles only want to abuse children and have respect for adults and can maintain healthy respectful boundaries with them

Yep. It's that magical cut-off point of 16 years old, above which women are at no more risk than from the next (non-rape-convicted) man, apparently Hmm

RuthyToothy · 01/05/2016 09:51

If a prisoner is going to be kept separate in a women's prison then why not just keep him separate in a men's prison instead?

Quite. It's no surprise that women are being expected to cede their safe spaces. Men's groups/spaces remain their own; women are expected to accommodate any and all attempts at access, regardless of who they're from.

treaclesoda · 01/05/2016 09:54

If men who say they are women succeed in gaining access to women only spaces such as female changing rooms then ultimately what will happen is that large numbers of women will simply feel that they can no longer go to the gym/go swimming/use communal changing rooms. (Particularly relevant I'd imagine to women whose religion dictates that they may not be in the presence of non related men). So by default women's freedom is eroded. Hardly fair.

I've just thought of something else. I've read on mumsnet that some areas with large Muslim populations have Eg swimming sessions where only women are allowed and the staff are all female. What should happen there if a man with a beard and a penis decides he is a woman and must be allowed in? The women all pack up and go home?

Lweji · 01/05/2016 09:54

Naturists have no problem undressing in front of either sex.
The problems that we have are mostly nurture than actual safety.
My brother and I shared a bathroom until we were quite grown up. It always felt natural.

treaclesoda · 01/05/2016 09:58

Naturists are a fairly small section of society. Fine if they want to be naked in public, that's their choice. But the point is that it IS a choice. It's not fair to take that choice away from people.

RuthyToothy · 01/05/2016 09:59

I shared a bathroom with male flat mates until well into my twenties. It was fine. None of them were convicted rapists claiming to be women.

Lweji · 01/05/2016 10:03

Yes, but wearing clothes is a choice. My point is that being naked or not in front of others is more about how we are raised and how we perceive others than actual risk to ourselves.

Many women also don't feel comfortable being naked in front of other women and shower in their swimsuits or underwear. Many boys in my ds's footie team do too. But most changing room showers still don't have curtains.

SuburbanRhonda · 01/05/2016 10:03

Good for you, lweji.

Obviously you're not saying that if its ok for you it has to be ok for everyone else, though, are you?

HermioneWeasley · 01/05/2016 10:03

lweji but this isn't about what you and I feel comfortable with, it's a general principle.

Do we segregate on the basis of sex, or gender identity? If gender identity, then women and girls are at increased risk, and many women will stop using facilities.

Lweji · 01/05/2016 10:05

None of them were convicted rapists claiming to be women.
And?
They could be date rapists by all you know.
Most men in public rooms are also not convicted rapists.
And I don't see how "claiming to be a woman" has any relation to risk.

OfCrayonBorn · 01/05/2016 10:08

Why do you think a man might claim to be a woman, Lweji? Other than gender dysphoria.

Lweji · 01/05/2016 10:13

Do we segregate on the basis of sex, or gender identity? If gender identity, then women and girls are at increased risk, and many women will stop using facilities.

I'm questioning if segregating by sex is working and if it's really safer for anyone.
Sex segregation is crude and has basically ignored all different types of sexuality. We'd say to most men that sharing showers with gay men is fine. But surely it can be as worrying for a straight man, as it is for a woman in relation to a straight man.
It could be argued that less sex segregation could lead to increased safety. But, then, facilities should really cater for those who require more privacy. Which in most places doesn't happen.
But for places with individual cubicles, such as most toilet facilities and shop changing rooms, I really don't see the problem.

RuthyToothy · 01/05/2016 10:13

So, Lweji, can we boil your argument down to this:

All men are potential rapists, and they all pose an equal risk to women (regardless of past convictions), so there's no point preventing men from accessing female-only spaces. Non-segregation is the way forward, and you takes your chances. And anyway, a woman might get raped by another woman in a female-only space, so might as well let convicted male rapists in there too.

RuthyToothy · 01/05/2016 10:17

And I don't see how "claiming to be a woman" has any relation to risk.

You can't understand why a predatory man might exploit a loophole in a law which allows him to claim to be a woman, despite undergoing no physical changes, in order to claim a legitimate presence in female-only spaces where previously he would have been forbidden access by law?

You REALLY can't comprehend that?

JoyFantastic · 01/05/2016 10:17

I have three brothers and would not want to undress in front of any of them. Growing up we often had play fights, I'm quite physically strong now but there is absolutely no way I could defend myself against one of them if they decided to use their strength against me.
Even without the 'penis' issues males are (mostly) much physically stronger than women, in the event of a lesbian wanting to get up close and personal against my wishes I would have a good chance of fighting them off. Would I be able to defend myself against a 6ft 4" ex-boxer/ soldier/ trucker just because he says he feels like a woman?

SuburbanRhonda · 01/05/2016 10:19

I'm questioning if segregating by sex is working and if it's really safer for anyone.

It's working for me.

CoteDAzur · 01/05/2016 10:24

"My brother and I shared a bathroom until we were quite grown up. It always felt natural."

Irrevant. Is your brother no different to you than a million strangers (men)?

I shared a bedroom and bathroom with my brother until we were both quite grown up, too. That has absolutely nothing to do with how I would feel about finding male strangers in female spaces and having to undress in from of them for the swimming pool, for example.

No way would I send DD to change into her bathing suit in a communal dressing room, if there would be the chance of finding adult human males (= men) there.