Trans people to be JAILED in Alabama town if they go to "the wrong toilet"

[katmanwho]

Unbelievable. There has been a lot of hate recently in North Carolina with the bathroom bill. But this has got a lot worse. [ www.al.com/news/anniston-gadsden/index.ssf/2016/04/oxford_passes_law_aimed_at_tar.html]

So a transwoman will have to go the male bathroom. A transman in the female one. There's been cases of butch women being hassled already in female toilets.

Oh - and if you're in North Carolina and witness someone who you think is in the wrong bathroom, you can call the hotline.

Meanwhile, a convicted sex offender (who is also Ex Republican House Speaker) is allowed to go the male bathroom with boys.

The only good thing about this bill is that it's made people react to the discrimination and to show that many people think this is discrimination. Just like in the 60s. Apparently trans people are sexual deviants.

This is the real effect of hate.

I am going to yell because some people are not listening

CAN EVERYONE WHO COMES ON THIS THREAD ANSWER ONE SIMPLE QUESTION

THE MANY, MANY PICTURES OF BEARDED, 6FT, PENIS OWNING, LESBIAN TRANSWOMEN THAT HAVE BEEN POSTED ARE YOU HAPOY FOR THEM TO BE UNDRESSED STOOD NEXT TO YOU OR ACCESSING FEMALE SPACES

Because not one of you have ever answered that question

I am not talking about a petite, effeminate person, who has boobs, long hair and good makeup

BUT AN ACTUAL FUCKING MAN WHO IS TAKING THE PISS

Cross post

And i did mean taking the piss not having a piss

And loads of us tea have said that we wouldnt have a problem with a fully transitioning transwoman in the loo

I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A MAN!!!!!!!!!

This makes me want to head butt someone or something

I don't mind who uses which toilets. A man walked into the ladies while I was washing my hands the other day. He thought it was the gents and I'd got the wrong one We had a laugh and he left. It was fine. I didn't feel unsafe at all. I'm happy for people to wee in either - if everywhere had unisex loos with proper private cubicles it would mean we can stop debating this nonsense. Trans people have been using the toilet of their choosing for decades and it's fine.

Why on earth would a transwoman be less privileged than a woman? They have led a life as a man and then put on a dress and still benefit from male privilege (eg everyone listens to their demands and makes sure it happens - women fight decades for the basics). How can suicide stats tell you anything about underprivilege when suicide rates are higher in the west than in impoverished countries and generally suicide rates are higher for men than women? Or is the western man underprivileged now?

tearfuelled Yes it very much comes down to what we believe to be a woman. I can understand why people feel that transwomen are women. In many situations I can see why that would be valid. If I go to the bank, it doesn't matter what the person behind the counter is identifying as. If they present as a woman I would address them as such. Mostly these would be social situations.

However, I have a hard time removing the physical and biological reality of the vast majority of women from the definition of woman when the very reason for the oppression and subjugation of women is their biology.

The lived experience and bodily experiences of women differ from transwomen. As transwomen's differ from women's. Conflating the two because there may be some overlap is dangerous to both groups. If women and transwomen are the same, what's the trans about?

Or perhaps we should campaign for the rights of doctors, dentists and lawyers as they are professions most likely to commit suicide so therefore must be under privileged?

Why on earth would a transwoman be less privileged than a woman? It's not a competition - in some ways women have less privilege than transwomen (particularly if the transwoman has appeared male in the past) and in some ways trans people have it worse (eg I know more trans people whose parents have completely cut off contact because they're trans than women whose parents cut of contact because they're women). All underprivileged groups should ideally support each other and recognise the different struggles we all experience.

I know more trans people whose parents have completely cut off contact because they're trans than women whose parents cut of contact because they're women

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on a trans thread here. And that's saying something.

I just don't care about transwomen and their hurty feelz over currently not being allowed to use their bathroom of choice.

All underprivileged groups should ideally support each other and recognise the different struggles we all experience.

Yeah ... but transwomen don't do that for women. Instead, they want to take away the few rights we have gained through years of fight.

I know more trans people whose parents have completely cut off contact because they're trans than women whose parents cut of contact because they're women

Did you read the thread where a woman asked if she was being unreasonable to not attend a wedding where a convicted consumer of child porn was also invited? Did you read, in that same thread, the many reports of women who were raped by a male family member and then had their families cut off contact for the "crime" of not wanting to be in the same space with the rapist?

Obviously parents cannot cut off contact with a child just because she's a girl if they previously accepted that they had a girl baby. (In India and China, girl fetuses are aborted before they are even born - that's a bit worse than cutting off contact).

However, if a girl is not just as society expects a girl to be, then she is very likely to be thrown out of the house by her family.

Butch lesbians, for example. Name one single oppression transwomen face but butch lesbians do not.

It's not me making it into a competition. I am picking up on other people's reasoning and critiquing it. I am busy standing up for the rights of 51% of the population. Quite happy to support other under privileged groups. I hear suicide rates is a good way to id them so I am going to start with middle aged male doctors.

alis, I loved it when Germaine Greer said that when asked if she was worried transwomen might be offended by her views. And when she said "You should try being old!".

I loved her a little more after that interview

Quite happy to support other under privileged groups. I hear suicide rates is a good way to id them so I am going to start with middle aged male doctors.

Any ideas on how to start supporting them?

Do they need better access to mental health care?

Perhaps access to women's bathrooms because their prostate problems prevent them from being able to pee standing up and they are ashamed because of this?

Perhaps they need to get new cars on the NHS, as treatment for their midlife crisis? Will a Ferrari for each doctor do?

Okay, first of all, we'd have to start a movement. Any name suggestions?

I hope you are not suggesting mental health care! How outrageous.

I hope you are not suggesting mental health care! How outrageous.

Right, I forgot, implying that mental health has anything to do with suicide rates is baaad.

What about the new cars?

It's so stupid. If men wanted to chuck on a dress and hang around in women's toilets they would have done it 100times by now.
They wouldn't have waited for all this to happen (and by this I mean more and more trans people feeling confident enough to openly be themselves).
It's absolutely stupid. Every other state / country is fine.

It's so stupid. If men wanted to chuck on a dress and hang around in women's toilets they would have done it 100times by now.

Which is exactly what they are doing. Minus the dress, obviously, in most cases. The difference is, in the past, you could report them and they'd be removed from the toilets before they could assault anyone ... hopefully.
Wasn't it in this very thread that a woman mentioned she was followed into the toilet by males?

Now they can do the exact same and claim to be transgender if anyone challenges them.

blink it's not even the toilets so much. The toilets are just the wardrobe door into Narnia.
It's the men, with NO intention of having reassignment surgery, proud members of, and I quote, 'female penises' having access to women's prisons, shelters, etc.
Surely, you see how that is a problem?

*Should be proud owners, but proud members is actually pretty fucking descriptive

If you fundamentally believe that trans women are men dressed up, then much of what many of you are saying has some merit.

I cannot begin to to understand how 'Danielle' is a woman purely because he says so

It's the men, with NO intention of having reassignment surgery, proud members of, and I quote, 'female penises' having access to women's prisons, shelters, etc.
Surely, you see how that is a problem?

I'm prompted to post 'Danielle' again here, just in case anyone is thinking 'Nah, that's just too ridiculous!'

Here 'she' is again.

Yes, forget toilets, if the self identification legislation goes through, Danielle, Alex, Davina and "Stephonknee" can all access women hospitals wards, showers, rape crisis centres and survivor groups and domestic violence shelters.

Are you comfortable with that?

His quote says it all.

Basic translation: I expect you to take your mind completely off the peg, abandon all logic, sense and previous definitions and accept that my body parts and biological sex are irrelevant because I say so. If I say I am a woman that's the end of the discussion. Think as I tell you or you're a bad person.

Wtf?

I go with an oft used quote on MN. 'Your right to swing your fist around ends at my nose'.

Can someone help me out by decoding the language. What's meant by transwoman? And what is 'cis' (I think I've seen that used in threads)? What other words should I know in the context of this? Can someone undergoing gender transformation (are those the right words) have their gender legally changed at the end?

Sorry, following the arguments but it's all new to me and I might be missing nuanced detail by misunderstanding the language.