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Original poster

Trans women as NUS Women's Officer- Part 2

504 replies

StinkyPie · 26/02/2016 16:30

Last few posts from Part 1;
sieReturningParker

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

Today 16:19 ShortcutButton

4th if Anna and Sarah were TRUELY allies of women then they would seek to address the concerns that women are expressing in reasoned tones, over and over and over again in varies forums

Instead, they held an emergency meeting (this is before my poutburst) and decided the beast course of action was not to respond to women

How can you consider that approach to be the action of people that understand women, align with women, want to advocate for women????

Think of it as a personal relationship. Your lover or friend is expected to support and care for you. The person is acting in a way that you feel is not in your best interests. You attempt to start a conversation with your friend/lover to discuss this. They totally blank you and refuse to acknowledge that you even spoke

How do yuou feel about that person? Are they your friend?

Taking the analogy further...you get frustrated that you are being silenced and your concerns ignored and have a short aggressive outburst

NOW that person is listening to you. Telling everyone how violent and scary you are. Using this as an excuse for never having to listen to you again...a reason noone should take your opinion seriously...

How do you feel about that person now? That's an abusive narcissist personality type

Today 16:17 VincentVanLowe

They know you aren't threatening them. Your post was clearly making a point about the difference between criticism and concern versus threatening and harassment. The latter is what women are subjected to every day by trans activists. The former is what Lee and Noble have been busy deleting and dismissing as 'bigotry'. They've chosen to misrepresent posts here and elsewhere in order to play act like they believe a bunch of women posting on mumsnet are actually any sort of physical threat to them, two good sized males with plenty of media backing - it's farcical, we all know it is.

Today 16:16 PrettyBrightFireflies

4th - so why wouldn't you support a man in the role of NUS Womans Officer ?

If having experience is not relevant to the role, then what is the difference between a trans-woman and a man in fighting for the Annafesto?

OP posts:
Hennifer · 26/02/2016 21:03

I think the old thread was on In the News for a couple of days though

SirVixofVixHall · 26/02/2016 21:04

I wonder if part of the reason that women, partiularly young women, are so quick to accept transwomen as women, is because we are so familiar with the sense of being uncomfortable with our bodies, disconnected from them, and seeing them as a problem to be solved. So there is sympathy there for a man with those feelings. I have that sympathy too, of course, I do feel for anyone so unhappy with themselves that they would amputate a body part in order to feel better. But a sad, unhappy, dysmorphic man, does not a woman make.

Hennifer · 26/02/2016 21:05

Interesting...

'The first “queer trans disabled lesbian woman” to run for women’s officer at the National Union of Students (NUS), Anna Lee, celebrated her birthday on Tuesday by giving herself a rest from interacting with online abusers, trolls and transphobes.

Since announcing late last week on Facebook that she would run for the position, she says she has been “inundated by mostly middle-aged white men who seem to be very angry about it”.

Men? Where is this happening? I thought he/she was pissed off with us, not with some men somewhere.

iwuddarryl · 26/02/2016 21:07

When I was that age I was so busy trying to be right-on and groovy, I'd have supported a bunch of trans-turnips (or indeed trans-carrots)

You can't blame them. At that age I bet I would also have voted for some fat bloke in a frock to represent women.
Anything to go along with the 'popular' thinking.
They want to be seen as pushing the limits. But it's stupid and dangerous.

CultureSucksDownWords · 26/02/2016 21:07

I'm interested to know how you can know the age, race and sex of online commenters and posters...

GreenTomatoJam · 26/02/2016 21:09

SirVix - you have something there - I've had issues with my body (I'm short and fat) throughout childhood, puberty and into adulthood.

I still have issues now, but I'm older, have had kids, have a loving partner, and they've kinda paled into the background (at least until it comes time to get a new pair of jeans.. then I'm back to wishing that I was different for a bit). Contrasting to DP who, despite objectively having a rather less than perfect body, has never had any pause about wandering around naked or semi dressed - either in private, or in more public places like changing rooms.

Women do get people being uncomfortable with their bodies, because most of us are, and that empathy is an open door for people to exploit.

GreenTomatoJam · 26/02/2016 21:11

Culture - Ah, well, I once worked for a company that given your ip address could figure out a frightening amount about you..

But, I'm guessing that they're actually spinning it - after all, a candidate for women's officer shouldn't be receiving anything but support from women.

GreenTomatoJam · 26/02/2016 21:11

Either that or they've decided any women wearing jeans must be trans and therefore a man.

CultureSucksDownWords · 26/02/2016 21:13

I doubt they've done the leg work to track down and classify each commenter. And even if they did, how can be sure they are male, currently? They might have just decided to identify as female.

PalmerViolet · 26/02/2016 21:20

It is men who harm and kill MTT, especially MTT of colour, but it's so much easier to blame women for it. It's easy to say that Greer has "literally" killed MTT, however, I suspect that if you spoke to the men who kill MTT, none of them have even read Greer, Dreger or any of the other intelligent women talking about this.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 26/02/2016 21:24

I genuinely wish 4th had answered the question about Rachel Dolezal, I can't see how it is acceptable for a man to be a woman because he feels like one, yet what Rachel did was so unacceptable.

I guess it's only okay to appropriate women's lives.

HermioneWeasley · 26/02/2016 21:25

If identifying as something instantly magically makes you into that thing,MNHQ do we need trans rights and representation at all?

If a man has always actually been a woman and is exactly what a woman is then how are they "trans"? How would anyone know to discriminate against them?

MrsToddsShortcut · 26/02/2016 21:29

Hmm. I was rather under the impression that she wasn't actually interacting at all, but just getting everything deleted (at least on FB, Twitter and the Graun).

It's interesting actually, because i detect the whiff of frantic spin. We (as in MN) are being told that it's us that are trolling and TERFing and threatening her. Clearly other publications are being sold a different angle - I wonder why? I wonder if they think that threatening us with 'exposure' as evil TERFs will silence us, while realising that a story about a bunch of crazed MNetters trolling her doesn't have quite as much leverage in the wider sphere? I mean, she needs validation and she won't get that by claiming she's being trolled by Mumsnet. But being trolled by hundreds of men validates her as a woman - it's to be expected.

(Disclaimer: she might well be being trolled by men but I haven't seen much evidence of it - just a variety of people commenting and being deleted)

SirVixofVixHall · 26/02/2016 21:30

Yes Hermione, exactly.

MrsToddsShortcut · 26/02/2016 21:30

Not, I hasten to add, that she is actually being trolled by MN!

MamaMary · 26/02/2016 21:34

So hang on, let me get this straight.

Anna is a queer, disabled, trans LESBIAN woman?

So 'she' fancies women? and 'she' has (PIV) sex with women?

How can the likes of 4th simply accept that Anna is a woman because she puts on a dress and tells them she is a woman? When she looks and acts like a man. It's crazy.

ShortcutButton · 26/02/2016 21:48

I think Sarah Noble is confused arent they

It is definitely not ok to be abused because you are trans-gender. And you should be protected.

That does not however protect you from being called an arsehole, when you are being an arsehole

its not a free ticket, to behave however you want and not get called out on it

BeyondBootcampsAgain · 26/02/2016 21:50

I would not disagree that Sarah Noble is confused.
Sarah Noble certainly comes across as confused

BeyondBootcampsAgain · 26/02/2016 21:51

Are you reading this Sarah Noble?

PalmerViolet · 26/02/2016 21:55

Noble is also aware that this is about the last corner of the internet where women are allowed to discuss this without too many people trying to silence women, they can't stand that, so tried to cause another pile on. Again. Funny, they don't attack sites where men openly call for MtT to have no rights at all.

IShouldBeSoLurky · 26/02/2016 21:56

Sarah Noble is very quick to accuse women of threatening violence against transwomen when she was kicked out of the Lib Dems for threatening violence against men.

I see the Graun have closed comments on that thread, presumably because the mod got RSI from deleting them.

BeyondBootcampsAgain · 26/02/2016 21:59

Sarah Noble was kicked out of the lib dems for threatening violence against men?
Fascinating. I did not know it was possible to besmirch the honorable name of the lib dems!!

IShouldBeSoLurky · 26/02/2016 22:07

Sorry, that link is to a bit of a MRAish-looking site. The information is accurate, but I wouldn't advise clicking on it - it just came up on a google search I did.

HairyLittleCarrot · 26/02/2016 22:12

I can be supportive of women and transwomen who feel they share a gender identity In common. After all, there are millions, billions of biological women and it is unsurprising that at least some feel they and transwomen share a common brain gender. I support their right to hold that belief, much as I support the right of fundamentalist Christians to believe in creationism.

But I do not share that belief. I think it is a belief which is false and damaging and instead I choose facts and science, logic and realism.

We two groups (the gender fundamentalists and the gender atheists) can coexist perfectly well so long as I am not required to kneel at the altar of their faith nor forced to attend their church. And I won't force them into my world view either.

The problem is that this mutual respect doesn't cut both ways. The transactivists, the Anna Lees and Sarah Nobles are not content with identifying as members of their own gang and leaving those of us alone who have opposite belief systems. They won't acknowledge our differences. They want to force a common descriptor upon people who are desperately opposed.

I know exactly what I share in common with other women, and I know why it matters to me when it comes to sharing women's spaces and women's issues.
my biological sex. My female body.

And I think that millions of women believe this too. That what matters, what makes you a woman and what can never be changed is our biology and the way the world treats us as inferior because of it.

I share nothing in common with transwomen that I don't share in common with men. Our bodies are different. Our life experiences are different. Our 'gender' is different. Our beliefs are different.

By what possible common criteria can we be grouped? What sex-based issues do we have in common? Why should we be grouped under the same banner?

We are as different as day and night.

I would like one of the transactivist supporters to give me one single solitary criterion that can be used to justify why thousands of women who feel like me can and should be grouped as a common group with transwomen.

Don't tell me why YOU feel you are the same as transwomen. Tell me why I am the same, if your intention is to prevent me from differentiating myself.

How am I, a biological woman who rejects the concept of brain gender with every fibre of my being, the same as a biological male who embraces the concept of brain gender with a passion?

Why should women like me be prevented from defining ourselves and our biology as what we are?