Trans women as NUS Women's Officer- Part 2

[StinkyPie]

Last few posts from Part 1;
sieReturningParker

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

Today 16:19 ShortcutButton

4th if Anna and Sarah were TRUELY allies of women then they would seek to address the concerns that women are expressing in reasoned tones, over and over and over again in varies forums

Instead, they held an emergency meeting (this is before my poutburst) and decided the beast course of action was not to respond to women

How can you consider that approach to be the action of people that understand women, align with women, want to advocate for women????

Think of it as a personal relationship. Your lover or friend is expected to support and care for you. The person is acting in a way that you feel is not in your best interests. You attempt to start a conversation with your friend/lover to discuss this. They totally blank you and refuse to acknowledge that you even spoke

How do yuou feel about that person? Are they your friend?

Taking the analogy further...you get frustrated that you are being silenced and your concerns ignored and have a short aggressive outburst

NOW that person is listening to you. Telling everyone how violent and scary you are. Using this as an excuse for never having to listen to you again...a reason noone should take your opinion seriously...

How do you feel about that person now? That's an abusive narcissist personality type

Today 16:17 VincentVanLowe

They know you aren't threatening them. Your post was clearly making a point about the difference between criticism and concern versus threatening and harassment. The latter is what women are subjected to every day by trans activists. The former is what Lee and Noble have been busy deleting and dismissing as 'bigotry'. They've chosen to misrepresent posts here and elsewhere in order to play act like they believe a bunch of women posting on mumsnet are actually any sort of physical threat to them, two good sized males with plenty of media backing - it's farcical, we all know it is.

Today 16:16 PrettyBrightFireflies

4th - so why wouldn't you support a man in the role of NUS Womans Officer ?

If having experience is not relevant to the role, then what is the difference between a trans-woman and a man in fighting for the Annafesto?

And you could get your comment deleted for saying that, Samantha.

How can a man live as a woman if they do not even look like one? People would treat them differently if they at least blended in and looked like an ordinary woman. Anna only has the experience of living as a blatantly male trans woman.

Oh I know. It's a sad day when MNHQ goes the same way as the Guardian moderators.

He's not living like a woman though is he.

He's a man who fancies women and, if sexually active, is having sex with women.

"If this is the future of feminism, then I haven't got much hope for it"

My DD countered my similar comment last night by saying that the same attitude was prevalent when slavery was abolished

I can only reiterate my comment upon hearing that Pretty...

mama lots of women fancy other women and have sex with them. What I struggle with is understanding the sexual orientation a person who is in a relationship with a lesbian trans-woman.

However, Im beginning to realise that is due limitations of my own understanding - sexuality, like gender, is no longer categorised - it has become fluid.

I know samantha - I've been labelled a TERF by my own DD, less than a year after she passionately berated me for not identifying as feminist

PBF - same here with my DD, the irony being I brought her up as a feminist!

She has trans friends and talks about the struggles they've had, which I completely understand. One of her friends' parents still refuse to call him by his chosen name and buy him girls' clothes knowing he has identified as a man. That must be terrible, from your own parents.

But Anna Lee is not the same as me and never will be. I should be able to say that and not have to accept Anna Lee's narrative without being labelled a TERF and being excluded from a discussion because I don't toe the party line. We don't live in a dictatorship.

Looking at this list of rights that some trans people are fighting for scares me :gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/transgender-rights-the-elimination-of-the-human-rights-of-women/

I worry that women's rights are going to be slowly eroded one by one.

Apologies, I don't know how to make it clicky.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/transgender-rights-the-elimination-of-the-human-rights-of-women/

Ah, Yes I do!

Yes, I understand that many women sleep with other women.

But what is the sexual orientation of someone who wants to be in a relationship with a queer trans lesbian woman?

Copy and paste of the disturbing list:

^Removing the legal right of women to organize politically against sex-based oppression by males

Removing the legal right of women to assemble outside the presence of men

Removing the legal right of women to educational programs created for women outside the presence of men

Eliminating data collection of sex-based inequalities in areas where females are underrepresented

Elimination of sex-based crime statistics

Eliminating athletic programs and sports competition for women and girls

Removing the legal right of women to be free from the presence of men in areas of public accommodation where nudity occurs

Elimination of grants, scholarships, board and trustee designations, representative positions, and affirmative programs for women

Removing the legal right of women to create reproductive clinics, rape crisis services, support groups, or any organizations for females

Eliminating media and all public discourse specific to females

Removal of the right of journalists to report the sex, and history, of subjects

Eliminating the legal right of lesbians to congregate publicly

Elimination of lesbian-specific organizations and advocacy groups

Removing the legal right of women to free speech related to sex roles and gender

Elimination of the legal right of women to protection from state-enforced sex-roles (appearance/behavior/thought)

Elimination of the legal right of girls to protection fromc

Elimination of the patient right of dependent females to hospital/facility bed assignments separate from males

Elimination of the right of dependent females to prefer female providers for their intimate personal care requirements

Elimination of the human right of female prisoners under state confinement to be housed separately from male prisoners^

Many of these things are happening right now.
I don't know what "state-enforced sex-roles" are though.

It makes me cross when people say anna is experiencing misogyny. No, they are not, because they are not read or treated as a woman. What they are experiencing is homophobia, which punishes people for stepping outside of the gender binary. Identifying as a woman doesn't make your negative treatment into misogyny when the root cause is homophobia.

Misogyny and homophobia are rooted in the same thing though; a distrust/hatred/fear/lack of respect as a person for someone who is not a traditional masculine male.

I am sure this has already been posted but I thought I would post it just in case.

It's thoughts from a transwoman on some of the current issues in the 'trans community'.

The points raised are interesting but are nothing that haven't already been addressed. I really liked it because it's funny.

So 'she' fancies women? and 'she' has (PIV) sex with women?

Hopefully not. You see, that's why the trans are angry at lesbians; they won't have sex with penis.

If at all, I hope 'she' has sex with heterosexual women who think identifying as lesbian is trendy.

But maybe that individual also rapes lesbians by bullying them into "consenting" to have sex with him 'her'.

Where is a throwing up smiley when you need it?

They're also angry with men because those who don't identify as lesbian (Jeez!!) and want to have sex with men, don't understand why straight men won't even contemplate the idea of sleeping with them. (Er ... Maybe because they aren't actually women???!!!)

It is far, far easier to be angrier at women.

One thing that really puts me off posting here is that the subject tends to bring out those who are really very deeply prejudiced against various groups, but think that their prejudice is legitimised by what we are saying.

It's not. I think it's foul to be so derogatory about someone as to call them that, with all the sentiment that term carries, and yes, it ought to be deleted.

It is far, far easier to be angrier at women.

And safer. Let's not forget how dangerous it is to try and talk or trick a heterosexual man into having sex with another man.

Men are allowed (quite rightly) to own their sexuality. Women? Not so much.......