Trans women as NUS Women's Officer- Part 2

[StinkyPie]

Last few posts from Part 1;
sieReturningParker

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

Today 16:19 ShortcutButton

4th if Anna and Sarah were TRUELY allies of women then they would seek to address the concerns that women are expressing in reasoned tones, over and over and over again in varies forums

Instead, they held an emergency meeting (this is before my poutburst) and decided the beast course of action was not to respond to women

How can you consider that approach to be the action of people that understand women, align with women, want to advocate for women????

Think of it as a personal relationship. Your lover or friend is expected to support and care for you. The person is acting in a way that you feel is not in your best interests. You attempt to start a conversation with your friend/lover to discuss this. They totally blank you and refuse to acknowledge that you even spoke

How do yuou feel about that person? Are they your friend?

Taking the analogy further...you get frustrated that you are being silenced and your concerns ignored and have a short aggressive outburst

NOW that person is listening to you. Telling everyone how violent and scary you are. Using this as an excuse for never having to listen to you again...a reason noone should take your opinion seriously...

How do you feel about that person now? That's an abusive narcissist personality type

Today 16:17 VincentVanLowe

They know you aren't threatening them. Your post was clearly making a point about the difference between criticism and concern versus threatening and harassment. The latter is what women are subjected to every day by trans activists. The former is what Lee and Noble have been busy deleting and dismissing as 'bigotry'. They've chosen to misrepresent posts here and elsewhere in order to play act like they believe a bunch of women posting on mumsnet are actually any sort of physical threat to them, two good sized males with plenty of media backing - it's farcical, we all know it is.

Today 16:16 PrettyBrightFireflies

4th - so why wouldn't you support a man in the role of NUS Womans Officer ?

If having experience is not relevant to the role, then what is the difference between a trans-woman and a man in fighting for the Annafesto?

^^ Yes, that's who I meant! Thank you Hazy.

I have been lurking on these threads with interest.

I read that article linked to down thread, (this one) and forwarded it to a friend, thinking it was a good way of explaining the emperors new clothes element to all this.

He emailed back saying it was "hateful nonsense".

This took me aback. I don't feel hateful...and I agreed with a lot of the stuff in the article. Am I a bigot then? The only thing I didn't really feel was warranted was where the new female names of people who have gone through gender reassignment surgery were put in inverted commas. It seemed a bit mean and unnecessary.

I felt unsettled enough to do another internet search, whereupon I found many pieces like this.

There are a lot of references to medical and scientific evidence that shows you can, in fact, be a (paraphrasing) "woman trapped in a man's body" - scans showing that pre-op or pre-hormone treatment brains are different from men's brains - thoughts on this?

Additionally, there are lots of articles suggesting that the author of the original link (McHugh) is a conservative catholic with an agenda.

I feel uneasy.

But also, why am I being called "hateful"? It's very emotive language is it not?

Feel like I can't see the wood for the trees here. All I really care about is that women's right aren't eroded or that children aren't subjected to hormone treatment.

WTF is going on?

www.newscientist.com/article/dn28584-a-welcome-blow-to-the-myth-of-distinct-male-and-female-brains/

The 'brain' theory is used, supposedly as 'evidence,' that transgender people are closer to the other sex. It's rubbish. There isn't a male or female brain.

Your friend might have considered the views in the article as bunkum, but there's certainly much food for thought there. I'm a leftie but I agree with the writer.

I think people need to be a bit careful linking to the public discourse site. There are some good articles on trans there but the Witherspoon Institute, who run the site, are a US right-wing think tank who oppose gay marriage and abortion rights.

So the transactivists are using the same science that shows there is no correlation between brain activity/pattern/scan/area light up and biological sex, and saying look, these (trans) subjects' brains are either more similar to female brains, or just not the same as male brains?

Sorry, I meant they are asserting both or either, not asking which.

I read the study from Sweden mentioned in the link and found that the conclusion read as below:

'Conclusion
This study found substantially higher rates of overall mortality, death from cardiovascular disease and suicide, suicide attempts, and psychiatric hospitalisations in sex-reassigned transsexual individuals compared to a healthy control population. This highlights that post surgical transsexuals are a risk group that need long-term psychiatric and somatic follow-up. Even though surgery and hormonal therapy alleviates gender dysphoria, it is apparently not sufficient to remedy the high rates of morbidity and mortality found among transsexual persons. Improved care for the transsexual group after the sex reassignment should therefore be considered.'

If indeed mortality rates are so high post-transition, this is very sad and more care and attention should be given. It made me think of someone who undergoes plastic surgery in the belief that looking different would make them happy and of course it doesn't because the underlying issue was never addressed; their appearance was never actually the problem at all. They were very unhappy within.

I looked up Paul McHugh on Wiki and he has an all round very impressive cv. He is 85 years old. No mention of his views on transgenderism, I can only guess his page hasn't been got at.......yet.

It's strange the law changes aren't being mentioned let alone discussed on Women's Hour or any news programmes. Anything in the public eye usually crops up somewhere on radio4, on the health progs or for example the moral maze. I will assume people are too scared to touch the topic.

Can I add that, hopefully, this 'inclusiveness' that everyone is falling over themselves to embrace will turn round and bite them on the bum if there are negative consequences to shared changing rooms, and, for example, MtF athletes taking a larger share of prizes, and that many younger women, at the moment disinterested, will form stronger pro women views in the years to come.

I wish I thought that were true Hazy but I suspect that what will happen if a woman gets assaulted in prison/in a toilet by a transwoman is that media reporting will go very quiet.

After all, national media didn't report that Claire Derbyshire had a conviction for wanking in her friend's underwear. And they very much gloss over the crimes that transwomen commit.

I am fearful that transwomen taking a larger share of prizes will be seen as a victory for equality for transpeople. When Caitlyn Jenner was awarded Woman of the Year by Glamour magazine, very few people thought there was anything wrong with it

Hazy, I wasn't suggesting there is anything wrong with the author or the article, it's the hosting website that could be a problem. The trans lobby will use anything they can find to smear gender-critical feminists and linking to such a far-right, anti-gay, anti-woman website, however sensible the individual article is, is giving them free ammo.

I think it's fine to link here, it's a good article. I'm more concerned about the backlash people could get from sharing it on FB etc.

Yes, Lynda it is very dispiriting, I am trying to be resigned (and hopeful that things will pan out differently in the future) rather than giving myself constant high blood pressure with the disappointment/anger over it all.

I've just realized (as was too lazy previously to read up on this properly) that the 2004 Gender Recognition Act set the law. That includes the living as a woman for 2 years, then changing to being recognized as a woman (with the agreement of a psychiatrist) etc. Though reading parts of it the transpeople competing in sports issue did not sound so clear, however that seems to be being ignored.

Done and dusted.

Just gonna throw this out here...

Some men breastfeed

Well if this was a thread about women, a breastfeeding comment could be like stepping into a minefield!!
But on a trans thread .................. tumbleweed drifts by!

:( @ tumbleweed...

Jamie Oliver must do. Otherwise, why would he, as a man, be telling women what to do?

Oh, wait....

Have you seen the latest tactic to close down discussion?

www.standard.co.uk/news/education/protesters-scupper-comic-s-free-speech-gig-at-goldsmiths-because-they-dislike-her-views-a3214896.html

I am actually feeling quite down having read the Green party tweets on male supremacy in their party. You now belong in the non male group if you are a woman.

Vertigo- disappointing that the left wing media has seemingly chosen not to report this. It is absurd that she is being singled out for protest!

I am sick of no platforming
Seriously considering whether dd should bother with university
Not sure I want her to borrow thousands to spend 3 years in what seems to be becoming an increasingly toxic environment

Well, I would be telling her to avoid Goldsmiths, based on the grammar of the protester and the flawed thinking processes alone. What on earth do they teach them there? FemSoc seems to be bent on self destruction and they want to take all women down with them. They remind me of the "trying too hard to be radical" Socialist worker crew when I was at university, tying themselves up in knots and often contradicting themselves.

I'm a bit confused as to how we arrived at the current situation. Surely in a democratic environment majority consensus is key, yet 50% of the world's population is yet again being held to ransom by a very small percentage of men. Why is gaslighting of this type still tolerated and, worse still, being upheld by the very people who would be the victims? Are women really so conditioned towards appeasement at any cost? It really is an emperor's new clothes situation.

As for the male/female brain thing, I often get male brain in those Facebook tests that come up, does that mean I should start identifying as a man let my facial hair run riot and use men's toilets with the sticky wee drops and skidmarks?

We shouldn't be surprised at the no platforming shit. Regressive left and fascist right - not a rice paper between them. Both are intolerant, bigoted control freaks.

Sorry for DM link - another feminist 'boycotted' for being transphobic and whorephobic by small minded fascists. They can't even give evidence of where she's been transphobic, it's enough for them just to say that she is.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3517874/Feminist-comedian-s-charity-gig-sabotaged-opponents-booked-tickets-en-masse-didn-t-turn-leaving-just-eight-people-audience-transphobic-whorephobic-Islamaphobic-views.html

Oh apologies, it's already been posted. The good thing about this one is that it has actually increased her profile and if you look on Twitter there is lots of support for her.