Trans women as NUS Women's Officer- Part 2

[StinkyPie]

Last few posts from Part 1;
sieReturningParker

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

Today 16:19 ShortcutButton

4th if Anna and Sarah were TRUELY allies of women then they would seek to address the concerns that women are expressing in reasoned tones, over and over and over again in varies forums

Instead, they held an emergency meeting (this is before my poutburst) and decided the beast course of action was not to respond to women

How can you consider that approach to be the action of people that understand women, align with women, want to advocate for women????

Think of it as a personal relationship. Your lover or friend is expected to support and care for you. The person is acting in a way that you feel is not in your best interests. You attempt to start a conversation with your friend/lover to discuss this. They totally blank you and refuse to acknowledge that you even spoke

How do yuou feel about that person? Are they your friend?

Taking the analogy further...you get frustrated that you are being silenced and your concerns ignored and have a short aggressive outburst

NOW that person is listening to you. Telling everyone how violent and scary you are. Using this as an excuse for never having to listen to you again...a reason noone should take your opinion seriously...

How do you feel about that person now? That's an abusive narcissist personality type

Today 16:17 VincentVanLowe

They know you aren't threatening them. Your post was clearly making a point about the difference between criticism and concern versus threatening and harassment. The latter is what women are subjected to every day by trans activists. The former is what Lee and Noble have been busy deleting and dismissing as 'bigotry'. They've chosen to misrepresent posts here and elsewhere in order to play act like they believe a bunch of women posting on mumsnet are actually any sort of physical threat to them, two good sized males with plenty of media backing - it's farcical, we all know it is.

Today 16:16 PrettyBrightFireflies

4th - so why wouldn't you support a man in the role of NUS Womans Officer ?

If having experience is not relevant to the role, then what is the difference between a trans-woman and a man in fighting for the Annafesto?

I wish we could not be given any genders. I would like no gender on birth certificates or passports. I remember 30 years ago starting work and inventing a work signature of my initials and surname so that no one receiving the letter would know if I were female or male. Why do we have to be put into little boxes?

I don't see many trans people around and think they are pretty de minimis but certainly don't want people discriminated against. However I support Mrs T's comments above. We have a massive problem in the UK of women not being in charge, not being in the public domain etc etc. I am often the only female speaker at times. I want priority given to women who have lived as woman, done the night feeds, suffered the male abuse etc to be in the position of representing women. I do wonder if all the noise from transwomen is because they are men - the usual pushy I must have my voice heard, I must silence women stuff real women suffer day in day out. If men didn't discriminate and abuse women we wouldn't have issues over wanting protection for women. Perhaps if the trans women said things like - here, you go first, you take charge, not me - if they could be a bit submissive, humble, considerate, giving, learning from those born and having lived as female - realising that we women have an awful lot to teach them rather than I am wonderful, I am transfemale, I am as female as you, kneel at my feet and kiss them (which is very very male).

We don't really need MREs to destroy everything that women have worked for in the last couple 100 years or so, we have so called 'feminists' doing that for us by pandering endlessly to men. A TW as NUS women's officer isn't progressive, it's regressive. It eliminates yet another space created for a woman.

Woman seems to mean precisely nothing to far too many people.

The frequently trotted out argument of "are you saying that infertile women aren't women" really, really boils my piss.

I am an infertile woman. Still a woman. When blokes lean out of vans and shout remarks at me, they are assessing my fuckability as an obvious female. Being a faulty woman doesn't stop you being "ding ding ding" (I believe is the phrase now) a woman.

None of the following things make you a woman
Feelings
Make up
Long hair
Clothes
Synthetic hormones
Having silicone bags inserted into your chest
Having your penis cut off.

Quite, Hermione, I think someone else said that even women who are infertile, before they discover that they are, will have had a few pregnancy scares, taken contraceptives, worried about pregnancy etc. Something that MTT never have to do, because they aren't women.

And will likely have been raised with the assumption that their future is motherhood. I hate to think of how I've limited my own career on this basis, never mind how others may have discriminated.

I was wondering how we could reclaim the term TERF. Thinking back to some of the earlier posts about sticking with biologically sound, recognised definitions and avoiding double-speak/moving of goal posts/emperors-new-clothes-itis, I think TERF could equally be summarised as "The Earth is Round, not Flat".

All I can conclude after reading the last few pages is that the cognitive dissonance in '4th wave' feminists must be massively overwhelming. I hope they're saving up for good therapy.

"are you saying that infertile women aren't women" really, really boils my piss.

Mine too.

You have to really be committed to misunderstanding what is to be a woman to think infertility is anything other than one of the essential experiences that women can have that are totally different for "non-women" (don't want to leave out anyone who wants to show up to that party).

When I was reading 4th Wave's post I couldn't help wondering how young she was. Wait til you're in your late 30s/early 40s with young kids and getting passed over for promotions and leapfrogged by younger, less qualified and able men because you are now on the "mum track" despite keeping up full-time hours and busting a gut. Totally fucking annoying. I agree with whoever said upthread that getting older really brings your disadvantage as a biological female into focus. Let's forget the higher mortality rates for women having heart attacks because your classic heart attack patient is a middle-aged man. I'm also sort of looking forwards to becoming an invisible older women because I'm fed up of blokes gawking at my tits. Yep, TW, the male gaze is largely unwelcome for most women - not something you court.

Doh! let's NOT forget....

I've realised my real self! I'm going to identify as a trans-trans-woman. Double trans if you will. Double the oppression and disadvantage, double the distance on my journey towards acceptance and validation. It's so dispiriting being born a cis woman but who identifies as a trans woman and has had to make the perilous crossing over TWICE. But you know what, I'm going to put myself forwards as a candidate for NUS Trans officer. Being double trans gives me so much more insight into trans disadvantages and issued than a mere single journeyed trans person, I think I'd be perfect for the position. Damn, I'm not a student though, I reckon that would rule me out :(

BarryMerry, you could identify as a student.

i'll vote for you barry. I'm trans-disabled. I identify as able-bodied

Is this the thread about that fat bloke in a dress?
If yes, the other one was really interesting (looking forward to reading this one as well)

Yea I guess... as an ex student, who might even still have her old nus card knocking around, I think I might have a valid claim to the title. I'm also studying a language on the interwebs... that makes me a student, right? and the state of squalor in my kitchen means I could easy pass as one

@helenstaniland @Mauvelty But anything talking about 'women's bodies' that means cis women's bodies is immediately troubling

The above is from twitter. This is as pal of SarahNoble. So, yes, trans narrative IS seeking to shut down discussion of women's bodies

Just incase there is any doubt

What else could it mean?! Women's bodies are undeniably different to men's, and trans women's bodies. No woman will get prostate cancer, but trans women might, they won't get cervical cancer though. How can you meaningfully talk about women's bodies when that could include any man who identifies as female?

Remember though - they're our allies. They're fighting WITH us.

bollocks

I'm thinking of identifying as a cat. I'll get lots of strokes, looked after, fed, can sleep all day on a comfy bed, don't have to do anything for myself. The downside is that I may be thrown out at night, but on balance I feel I would be good at being a cat.

Bit of a problem over not having four paws, whiskers, pointy ears, a tail and lots of fur. But, if I self identify as a cat, then hey I'm a cat.

It is troubling when women talk about our bodies?
Oh do fuck off men.
Women/feminists need to care less about what men think of us, and I know a lot of feminists agree with that. However, young feminists who wouldn't want their conversation to be policed by a man will now change topics and terminology if male trans people said something was troubling and transphobic.

You cannot be vegetarian if you are a cat; or you will die

I've always thought that the roots of misogyny come from, in part at least, an intense jealousy of women's bodies, and ability to reproduce.

I also suspect that if trans didn't exist, the MRA would have more members....

Barry that made me laugh

How blind do you have to be to absolutely be convinced that these trans activists are allies?

Everything, I mean everything we need to talk about is to do with our bodies. Our female bodies. That is feminism/women's rights. In its entirety. Ding ding ding (?)