Trans women as NUS Women's Officer- Part 2

[StinkyPie]

Last few posts from Part 1;
sieReturningParker

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

Today 16:19 ShortcutButton

4th if Anna and Sarah were TRUELY allies of women then they would seek to address the concerns that women are expressing in reasoned tones, over and over and over again in varies forums

Instead, they held an emergency meeting (this is before my poutburst) and decided the beast course of action was not to respond to women

How can you consider that approach to be the action of people that understand women, align with women, want to advocate for women????

Think of it as a personal relationship. Your lover or friend is expected to support and care for you. The person is acting in a way that you feel is not in your best interests. You attempt to start a conversation with your friend/lover to discuss this. They totally blank you and refuse to acknowledge that you even spoke

How do yuou feel about that person? Are they your friend?

Taking the analogy further...you get frustrated that you are being silenced and your concerns ignored and have a short aggressive outburst

NOW that person is listening to you. Telling everyone how violent and scary you are. Using this as an excuse for never having to listen to you again...a reason noone should take your opinion seriously...

How do you feel about that person now? That's an abusive narcissist personality type

Today 16:17 VincentVanLowe

They know you aren't threatening them. Your post was clearly making a point about the difference between criticism and concern versus threatening and harassment. The latter is what women are subjected to every day by trans activists. The former is what Lee and Noble have been busy deleting and dismissing as 'bigotry'. They've chosen to misrepresent posts here and elsewhere in order to play act like they believe a bunch of women posting on mumsnet are actually any sort of physical threat to them, two good sized males with plenty of media backing - it's farcical, we all know it is.

Today 16:16 PrettyBrightFireflies

4th - so why wouldn't you support a man in the role of NUS Womans Officer ?

If having experience is not relevant to the role, then what is the difference between a trans-woman and a man in fighting for the Annafesto?

You'd have to have been living under a rock for a good few years not to realise that women are also terrified not to toe the party line. Since deviation from the current zeitgeist inevitably ends with "die in a fire TERF scum".

What would you say is the currently predominant view represented in the media and popular opinion? Because I'm getting that every newspaper and TV News station is of the opinion that TW are totally women, only bigots would dispute this, and Germaine Greer is a hateful doddery old relic.

So do I think the support AL receives is all genuine heartfelt enthusiasm? Nope. Not all.

There's probably more than a little bit of "please don't throw me under the bus if I say I love you - look over there - a terf!"

I've been wondering what "living as a woman" entails for Lee. Some examples of my own would be:

• channeled into a predominantly female degree/career rather than one I actually showed flair in (ie STEM)
• harassed on a bridge in the dark by a man following me saying "I'd like to fuck you"
• Being overlooked by managers for a promotion given that I'd been married a few years without having had a baby yet
• being paid the same now as I was 8 years ago just because I feel lucky to have a part time job and questioning whether I deserve to be paid any more considering I'm not working full time.

Anyone else care to share experience on "living as a woman" to help Lee know what this means?

There's probably more than a little bit of "please don't throw me under the bus if I say I love you - look over there - a terf!"

Completely agree with this

Yes mrsjamin
Mine are;

PMT that makes me throw up/pass out
Being masdturbated and cum over by a stranger whilst I slept on a beach
Having a man rub his penis on me whilst on a bus
Being raped by an ex whilst he gouged my eyeballs with his thumbs
Being asked in 2 interviews whether I plan on having more children
1 miscarriage
Pelvic Sympthasis Distinction which meant I couldn't walk for 9 months
2 successful pregnancies and births
Having my vagina stitched up badly after a badly doine episiotomy and living with the consequences
Breast feeding
Sexism at work

And being a single parent to 2 children, whilst working full time in 'a mans job'

Being under employed after returning from maternity leave

In reality, 'living as a woman' is nothing to do with wearing heels and make-up, of course,
MrsJamin, I can offer

• being groped walking to school by a guy walking in the other direction
• having my shirt pulled over my head to blindfold me and immobilize my arms so a group of men could grope my breasts in a bar
• watching while a steady stream of folk (with penises) were promoted into managerial positions ahead of equally capable women
• having my male manager pass me over for promotion because the male candidate had a wife and child to support, and I only had to look after myself
• being expected to manage the babysitting circle for work events as the only woman in the company
• being expected to leave work events at a certain time along with wives and girlfriends so that the men could carry on unfettered
• having to wear a skirt and heels to work
• being told daily that I was only there to bag a husband (what other reason could there possibly be for a woman working in a male environment?)

There are many other examples, of course. I understand that as a transwoman Anna Lee will have her own experiences. But they will not be the experiences of living as a woman.

Does this matter? Hmm. It doesn't matter if Anna Lee understands what concerns women and acts accordingly. It does matter if she has a GIC superficial understanding of what it means to live as a woman and acts according to that extremely limited viewpoint.

Her intention for transwoman to replace women in leadership positions in the workplace makes me stabby, though. Does she believe there are too many born women there already and we should be at home breeding and raising the babies, leaving the workplace for men? That seems to be going well so far. No change to the status quo then?

Gang rape
Childbirth injuries causing incontinence
No asd diagnosis til adulthood as "girls dont have it"
Other health things overlooked as i was being a drama queen
Ten years of taking hormones to not get pregnant
Not being taken seriously in labour, leading to foetal distress

As soon as I grew boobs having random car/van drivers screaming absolute obscenities at me (I was 11yrs old)

Being forced to do sewing and knitting at school. The boys did art.

Not allowed to play football/ rugby at school.

Maths teacher telling us that girls were rubbish at maths (I'm now an accountant.)

Flashed at when I was 15 and 18

Sexually assaulte when I was 16 and 20

Told by my tutor at university to make my handwriting messier so that when it was marked they would think I was a man.

Finding out my male junior manager was on more than me( I was his line manager and he was was paid £5k more)

Made redundant twice whilst pregnant.

PND

Breastfeeding

You know what? The list is fucking endless.

Living as a woman stinks sometimes.

Oh haha queen yy, being forced to do typing at school AND whilst on YTS, so I had 'something to fall back on'

I really REALLY want to ask AL and SN, to list their experiences of 'living as a woman'

Molested by male family member
Molested by male family friend
Molested by maledoctor
Molested by a malemasseuse
Sexually assaulted by male dentist
Physically assaulted by ex partner
Nearly dying in childbirth

Oh yes I can type. The boys did computing?!?

I also learnt flower arranging (this was 1983 (not the 16th century) - the boys did art.

Had to wear a skirt to school.

First 2 jobs forced to go on a tutorial about how to apply makeup.

Giving birth (legs in stirrups) male consultant walked in and performed an internal examination. Didn't even introduce himself.

Various health professionals started calling me "mum". DH was still allowed his name.

queen when I went for my first miudwife appt with 1st pregnancy; they were asking for mums name, mums profession etc etc. I thought, this is a bit weird, why do they want all this information about my mum??? It wasn't until we got to mums age and I said 55, bmidwife realised we were talking at x purposes

Oh God yes, the tweeeeeeeness of 'mum'.

erk.

It's a fashion to call people phobic when they happen to disagree about something that is the current Zeitgeist.

For example:
If someone happens to think that marriage should be between a man and a woman, they are not someone who happens to hold that view, they are "homophobic".

If someone happens to think that a burkah is not a suitable dress in western society, they are not someone who happens to think it is unsuitable, they are "Islamaphobic".

And now, if some happens to think that a transwoman is a transwoman and not a woman, they are not someone merely stating a biological fact, they are "transphobic"

It is a total misuse of the word phobia, which actually means an abnormal or morbid fear or aversion (OED) and not something someone happens to disagree about.

It's just a silencing technique and it's one we should simply shrug off and say "who cares"?

They can't shut you up if you don't give a damn about being called transphobic or a TERF. Let them rave on until they find something else to get their knickers in a twist about. And call them out on their biological ignorance every time.

Wasn't able to learn Latin or Classics at my all-girls' school because 'they're boys' subjects'
Street harassment started when I was eleven
Was approached by a man who wanted to pay me for sex when I was twelve
Started self-harming at fourteen.
Told that my severe depression was 'teenage girl attention seeking' and that I'd grow out of it
Sexually assaulted by a stranger on my fifteenth birthday
Called fat, ugly and worthless numerous times (and these things were conflated, because these people saw my worth as based on my appearance)
Told I have little chance of an ASD diagnosis because I 'mask well' (read: I don't present the way males do)
Sexually assaulted by a member of my host family at 22 while volunteering abroad
Working in low paid 'pink collar' jobs for the better part of a decade
Told to wear more make-up to job interviews

Fuck me, it's almost as if it's our biology that affects us, not our feelings.

Has anyone ever when they've been harassed or assaulted, has the offender ever stopped to check your internal gender identity?

Trimble yy the phobic thing annoys me so much. We always get accused of thinking all trans people are sex offenders/dangerous

Well, noooo that is not what we think. Just like we don't think all men are sex offenders/dangerous. The point is, we don't know which ones are. Which is WHY we have segregation

In actual fact, what they are asking of us is to believe that NO trans people are sex offenders/dangerous, simply by virtue of being trans

Now, that IS special snowflakery

I posted a this is what being a women is for me post on the other thread. I asked for it to be deleted as I figured it was identifying to people who knew me. I applaud those of you who are willing to put up the everyday, damaging experience of being a woman and the deep assault on your being and self which goes with abuse as well as more 'routine' encounters. There are many things I have not come to terms with; and part of coming to terms is yes, breaking the silence, but also having someone hear.

I am sure many of you do this, but if you can, please support the charities such as Women's Aid, who help women at grassroots level, and voice the need for same sex safe spaces at the political level.

grimbletart

That's a bit disingenuous. Using 'phobic' as a suffix may be an odd use of language but I would agree with the sentiments of the first two statements. There is such a thing as bigotry and discrimination and framing it as simply holding a different point of view is bollocks.

Somepeople are bigoted towards muslims, eg the ones who tell them to "go home" etc. But questioning any part of Islam's attitude to women is labelled islamaphobic.

Some people are bigoted towards trans people, eg the ones that actually try to harm them. Any questioning of trans ideology is labelled as transphobic.

Somepeople are bigoted towards muslims, eg the ones who tell them to "go home" etc. But questioning any part of Islam's attitude to women is labelled islamaphobic.

I completely agree, that wasn't the example used though.

Sobering lists here if Lee and Sarah would care to read them. Thanks for sharing them. I note that no-one mentioned walking in heels.

Ah I misunderstood your point MyCrisp - I see that you think that questioning wearing of bhurkas and thinking marriage is between a man and a woman are phobic.