Trans women as NUS Women's Officer- Part 2

[StinkyPie]

Last few posts from Part 1;
sieReturningParker

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

Today 16:19 ShortcutButton

4th if Anna and Sarah were TRUELY allies of women then they would seek to address the concerns that women are expressing in reasoned tones, over and over and over again in varies forums

Instead, they held an emergency meeting (this is before my poutburst) and decided the beast course of action was not to respond to women

How can you consider that approach to be the action of people that understand women, align with women, want to advocate for women????

Think of it as a personal relationship. Your lover or friend is expected to support and care for you. The person is acting in a way that you feel is not in your best interests. You attempt to start a conversation with your friend/lover to discuss this. They totally blank you and refuse to acknowledge that you even spoke

How do yuou feel about that person? Are they your friend?

Taking the analogy further...you get frustrated that you are being silenced and your concerns ignored and have a short aggressive outburst

NOW that person is listening to you. Telling everyone how violent and scary you are. Using this as an excuse for never having to listen to you again...a reason noone should take your opinion seriously...

How do you feel about that person now? That's an abusive narcissist personality type

Today 16:17 VincentVanLowe

They know you aren't threatening them. Your post was clearly making a point about the difference between criticism and concern versus threatening and harassment. The latter is what women are subjected to every day by trans activists. The former is what Lee and Noble have been busy deleting and dismissing as 'bigotry'. They've chosen to misrepresent posts here and elsewhere in order to play act like they believe a bunch of women posting on mumsnet are actually any sort of physical threat to them, two good sized males with plenty of media backing - it's farcical, we all know it is.

Today 16:16 PrettyBrightFireflies

4th - so why wouldn't you support a man in the role of NUS Womans Officer ?

If having experience is not relevant to the role, then what is the difference between a trans-woman and a man in fighting for the Annafesto?

sought reversal of the reassignment on the NHS so he can, amongst other things, get full erections again.

And as we all know, the NHS has plenty of money floating around to indulge him in that.

Of course, and apparently it was their fault in the first place because they didn't make him sufficiently aware of what it would be like to live as a woman.

For Fucks Sake. Is nothing his own responsibility? How are the NHS supposed to be able to give him enough information in that regard, unless they are all transgender people with a wealth of experience themselves?

I can't believe the tomfoolery of this. it's absurd.

they didn't make him sufficiently aware of what it would be like to live as a woman.

How aware is "sufficiently" aware?

Aware enough not to want to change back again?

How on earth is anyone supposed to do that?

Of course, and apparently it was their fault in the first place because they didn't make him sufficiently aware of what it would be like to live as a woman.

But surely, if he's always been a woman then he would have known this?

Feminists constantly tell the world what it's like to live as a woman. There are women saying things about this on other threads right now, and being told to pipe down. We are not believed. Told we're too angry, or that what we've said isn't relevant or that we are taking things said by others too seriously.

We are constantly told that, because one person hasn't experienced X, or hasn't noticed X or just doesn't believe that X is a real problem, then it doesn't exist.

Maybe now a man has said it, people will take it seriously?

Nahhhhh.

I don't know the full story here but I do sympathise on some level. I often imagine the young 'trans' people of today, getting older and realising they been totally let down by everyone who lead them to believe that they needed to change sex and that this is actually possible.

I mean I feel sorry for young children who really have no proper say as they are too young. But also more gullible and vulnerable adults. Not to say that this man is one. I don't know anything about him.

Oh and I think he's decided to stay female after all now.

I can't keep up.

There was a time when I would have sympathised on some level but with women's rights to safety even self-definition being eroded thanks to aggressive transactivist agenda, I don't have a single fuck left to give.

Yes indeed. Sometimes it seems like it really matters to these people, and this poor young man especially, what the whole world thinks he is. No one else cares - they either like you or they don't, nothing to do with which gender or sex or whatever you are.

It's like really extreme navel gazing...making a personal matter so very public. Nobody cares.

I really feel sorry for him, and I wonder whether the issues he clearly has are just issues that could have been sorted out with a bit of therapy or counselling.

You know that thing where you think cutting your hair is going to make you feel so much better, and then you regret it - well I've learned not to act on that one any more. I think it might be the same sort of thing.

People are either comfortable with themselves or they aren't, and if they aren't they will find something to fixate on, which they think might solve the problem. And it rarely does, because how bad you feel isn't about your appearance or your perception in the eyes of the world.

I think it's a huge, HUGE mistake to pin all your problems on one feature of yourself and obsess about it to the point of surgery - whether that's your breasts, your nose or your gender.

In that sense I am very much in favour of men NOT having de- or re-constructive surgery or whatever you call it, to change their genitals and so on. I think it's probably better to leave everything exactly how it is until you might want to use it again.

Our bodies are a gift. And we might hate them but they are all we've got.

I agree that everyone should be protected from male violence and no one should be left unprotected.

In one sense these proposed changes to making 'gender change' are better. Like the last PP, knowing that no surgery will change the sex of a person but rather give a basic surface appearance. It is better not to make people who are happy with their penis remove it, the alternatives are not easy.

But if a person likes their body and using their penis for sexual reasons and has a sex of male, what characteristics do they share with a person who has a sex of woman.

Don't we have a circle on one side of people who have a sex of woman..ie Most of this site. And another circle on the other side with no overlapping needs or desires of people who have a sex of male but reject that grouping and wish to be considered socially to have a gender of female.

Whatever the labels and pronouns used to describe both groups, there are no common areas. Therefore each groups needs should be addressed separately.

I think having separate options is the way to go. We should not allow a separate and conflicting group colonise people with sex of woman safe spaces, create new safe spaces for the other group.

I would be interested if anyone could think of any overlapping areas of similarity but from my view, I see none.

What's the cut off for the DOJ consultation on the trans proposals?

In Anna Lee's case, I don't feel they can represent the group of people who have sex of woman. Looking at Anna's manifesto, it concentrates mainly on their own needs not ours.

As the NUS already have a person to represent gay people and a person to represent trans people, I feel the candidates for the person to represent people with sex of woman, should BE a person with sex of woman.

I do not believe in 'gender' and identifying as having a gender of female, does not give Anna Lee the understanding or knowledge to represent and support people who have sex of woman.

'the group of people who have sex of woman'

FEMALE. The word you are looking for is female.

Let's please continue to use the word 'female', or I fear we will lose it just like we seem to have lost 'woman'.

I imagine quite a few of you are there already but there's a FB group where these issues are being discussed sensibly and in detail. If you'd like to join please PM me and I will let you know how to be added

Cote You are 100% right....that is why I refuse to use phrases like 'cis'.

I was trying to make the point that women have/need safe spaces because of their sex not because of gender (Which doesn't exist, unless you want it too)

If I rewrote my post posting women and transwomen and men, how long would it be before I got banned from Mumsnet !

We have to be very accurate in what we write and noone can deny that ALL people who have sex of woman are women.

Agree that Anna's manifesto is completely trans-orientated. Cant believe (even in the lala land of man = woman) that people have actually argued that the manifesto is representative of women. I wonder if i'm reading completely different things sometimes!!

OMG
Got a letter back from my MP.
Can hardly believe it.
I didn't think my letter to him was a rant but I listed issues with communal toilets, cost to nhs, support by nhs, school changing rooms, men should be more accepting in men's toilets, public changing rooms, Olympics competitors.

The response was a ticking off as he claimed I'd accused a trans of raping the Lancaster uni student, which I hadn't. Then

'WE are proud that under an SNP Government Scotland has been ranked by ILGA-Europe - the European region of the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association - in its rainbow map as the most inclusive country in Europe for lesbian, gay bisexual, transgender and intersex equality. This recognizes our positive record in supporting equality and LGBTI rights.

We were the first national Government in Europe to fund a transgender rights programme: we included trans and intersex matters in the Offences (Aggravation by Prejudice) (Scotland) Act 2009, which we supported; and we have the most progressive marriage legislation on trans issues.

I am proud of our record in this area'

He goes on to say my concerns with the health service will be passed on to the Scottish Health minister.
If he can be of any further assistance in the meantime, please let me know.

And that's the response to all my questions - Unbelievable.

I have just read this -

www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/06/15145/

Sorry it isn't coming up as a link - it's an article by Paul McHugh on the public discourse website - anyway, it has restored my sanity.

Another article -

www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/01/16143/

Thank you for your posts at the beginning of this thread MrsPotts. You've helped me understand some other poster's pov that I incorrectly perceived as intolerance.

One thread in particular left me confused as to why some posters had a lack of empathy etc. This thread has put it into context for me and although I stand by my personal views I appreciate what others are saying, now that it is in context.

Maryz your suggestion of removing segregation of sex is interesting! Or how about transgender identifying as transgender and having transgender spaces etc. It's a complex subject and perhaps I naive but I don't believe it's a phase. I completely agree that children should be encouraged to feel comfortable in their own skin, I get to a crossroads when they become adolescent and want to make 'independent' decisions. Sorry to derail, just wanted to thank MrsPotts and to everyone that's contributed to the thread, it's really helped pur the subject into perspective for me.

It was MrsTodds btw in case anyone is searching!