And so it begins: Transwoman is running for women's officer of NUS

[PosieReturningParker]

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

Apologies romcom I've seen screen shots of twitter; where sarahnoble has shared the post I wrote on here; and extrapolated that to 800+ posts from women threatening violence in coordinated attacks

I'm not on twitter; so I replied here as she's obviously reading

[http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/04/17/kill-all-men-lib-dem-activist-in-hate-speech-scandal/ Ahem]] Sarah, what do we have here??

here even

I'm just going to get out some ideas whilst they're in my head, so apologies for lack of coherence:

She is trying to validate her own "woman" status by using words like misogynist to laughably describe how feminists are treating Anna's candidacy! It would be funny if it weren't so try hard and sad. She wants to paint all voices of dissent against the tide of male privilege in the form of TWs as bigot and transphobes, ignoring many of the TWs who just want to quietly get on with their lives and the women and girls who want their privacy and space.

And what has happened to transvestites? Are they allowed to be heterosexual males who like to wear "women's clothes" or do they now have to be trans queer lesbians?

Sarah Noble inciting violence with #KillAllMen thing is peculiar.... I wonder if she means biological males?

Also none of these TAs want to talk about Rachel Dolezal and have this knack to silence as opposed to engage women that are bucking the trend of accepting them as women. They're very "victim" lead aren't they? With no consideration of anyone else's feelings but we have to consider their feelings above everything.

I think women must push for policy before the TA women hating lobby do and ensure our spaces are safe.

In the end, especially as most of us aren't students, this isn't our battle to fight. We ALL must appeal to our mps about this overall encroaching issue of acceptance of transwomen into safe spaces for women and women's positions. My mp has daughters, I have a feeling I could appeal to his point of view. Also this avoids us being so public about these points of view. I keep considering putting something on Facebook /twitter but actually it's taken all of this thread to really consider these issues in depth. A quick link and a line of text on social media won't really encapsulate what this means to make me not look like a transphobe. I agree with leaving Lee and ghani alone, no good will come from it I'm afraid.

It's laughable (or would be if it weren't real), that men who identify as women have now claimed misogyny. And quite ironic as their erasure of women and women's rights is the most misogynistic behaviour. How has it come to this? I would despair, but that wouldn't get anything done.

'I think women must push for policy before the TA women hating lobby do and ensure our spaces are safe. ( Posey)
This
and this
' We ALL must appeal to our mps about this overall encroaching issue of acceptance of transwomen into safe spaces for women and women's positions.' ( Mrs Jasmin)

I have send the template from a few pages back to my mp. I will await his reply with interest

I don't think there is anything we can do at this point to ensure a feminist candidate runs for NUS women's officer, as the campaign has already begun. But women are still students, and girls will continue to enter university after this, and all will be affected by changes made by Lee, if they are elected. So, I think a wise course of action would be to discuss the problems with Lees manifesto with students and prospective students, and to keep an eye on what the elected person does as Woman's Officer and make sure it gets wider discussion of meaning and consequences. Also, we need to find and support feminist young women and feminist students to give them the opportunity to run in the future on a feminist woman-centred manifesto. And we need to support those women who are students and who are being insulted and 'deleted' from discussion of women's issues by Lee and their cronies.

Posie: "I think women must push for policy before the TA women hating lobby do and ensure our spaces are safe."

They are already pushing and already have the ear of the 'equality committee' run by Maria Miller. If you read through the committees recommendations on 'transgender equality' it is scary stuff: www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmwomeq/390/39002.htm

We need to get organised and get busy on this. We need the ear of people in parliament who can block any of the recommendations going through without a thorough study and discussion of the impact on women and girls.

"Also this avoids us being so public about these points of view"

How utterly depressing. I get it, i really do, and i was there for a long time. But i will not have my belief in facts and actual biology silenced by a bunch of appropriative mirror-wankers.

When I mention Transgender to anyone they really have no knowledge of any possible changes in law, or anything except how hard their lives must be so changes will make things better for them.

I suspect that includes MPs. There is such a lot going on in politics at the mo that it could easily be ignored until too late.

Write write write

I'll be adding my mp to the list later. Did someone write to the tWEP?

I feel very strongly about this, and as a student I will voice my protest to the NUS - did someone say that there was a link to a template letter (also a knackered working mother of 3 and carer of disabled child - so could do with some help putting my anger over this into words!)

It's not about being and nice and accommodating (which I agree is an expectation of women that traps us). It is indeed about being forthright and civil - firm and uncompromising about stating truths but without unnecessary personal attacks.

The perception of feminists as being driven by bigotry just like racists is a powerful weapon in the hands of the transactivists - possibly the most powerful weapon they've got as there's so little internal logic in some of the underlying ideology. Careless nastiness might feel cathartic but it aims that weapon and pulls the trigger for them.

Careful but relentless arguments repeated over and over again with courtesy help to defuse that weapon. It means backing up every statement that will seem shocking to someone new to this debate with an explanation as to why it's actually the right thing to say. We are hobbled at all times by the preconceptions people have about feminism and transphobia, constantly vulnerable to having an entire reasoned argument ignored because people don't see the need to look beyond "they are just nasty bigots" for other reasons why feminists might say what we do.

Repeatedly explaining why we think what we do is slow work that will never(?) convert a transactivist but it will raise the consciousness of many other women who haven't thought about this much before. This happened to me, through threads on here, but this particular thread isn't one I'd pick to show someone else who has not yet thought about the issue much, because of the greater than average number of personal attacks and nasty comments.

Anna Lee's trans-focused manifesto is a very weak point here. Her/their/his status as noble trans victim of evil feminists (however laughable that seems) is actually a strong one. We shouldn't fall into the trap of reinforcing that.

Absolutely, fimble. Personal attacks just play into their hands.

Far better to expose their inability to answer perfectly reasonable questions without deflection, evasion and aggression (theirs, not ours).

Agree fimble. We should maintain the higher ground.

I'm quite honestly fucking furious about this. How dare they/he.

How would the TW community feel if I as a woman stood up and told them all to shut up as I would speak for them now. Because as a woman I know exactly what they have experienced as trans and I know all about it (look! Dresses! Hair! Lipstick!)

They'd quite rightly tell me I had no idea. Which I haven't, so equally nor has he. The self importance of the man is overwhelming.

God I'm cross.

The bulwark of feminism has always been consciousness raising about issues which affect born women, and this seems a more worthwhile way to go than entering a Twitter spat.

From consciousness-raising has come a greater understanding of the issues which affect born men too; and indeed, intersex people.

Transgender affects both men and women, albeit not equally, because it defines and reinforces gender roles and expectations of masculinity and feminity under the guise of equality and diversity. There is nothing diverse about the homogeneous ideals of feminity being promoted, and it does nothing to further equal rights if voices are silenced in any debate and single sex spaces are removed.

Beyond that, I think the language of minority and disability is offensive to those who have fought for an equal public platform despite multiple layers of oppression.

That said, while I have no wish to be silenced by people who disallow debate, I equally have no wish to provide them with ammunition for their own agenda etc.

The comment

Are you proud of your site being used to coordinate violent threats to marginalised women

feeds into our hands, that is so over the top - proof of the shutting down of debate
Don't get angry

But thats not what is happening! Instead of questioning motives, or even resorting to personal attack (as demonstrated by David Cameron recently), woman are being forcibly silenced! Even here on MN, we cannot express our views and beliefs openly in debate.

If by "silenced" you mean that those providing the platform might either outright disallow, or at least "discourage", certain controversial (depending on your stance) assertions and opinions, or them being expressed in certain forms, then also par for the course surely. Doesn't even have to be the "owners" doing it, but other users of the platform. The one time a partially-opposing viewholder came on this thread there were some dismissal and "shut up and go away" tactics weren't there, such as suggesting she had the motive of wanting to derail the thread.

Someone is free to believe that abortion is murder, but they might get shortshrift if they just asserted this as fact, as if it was done deal that this is true, on a platform populated or provided by people with a pro-choice ethos and for whom this is a controversial point that is not a done-deal truth.

Not everyone agrees that it is a done-deal fact that whether you are a man or a woman is determined entirely by chromosomes. So if you start calling a transwoman "he" and "a man in a dress" and make other sentiments that assume a "truth" or a "fact" either not yet conceded, or outright disputed by the platform-providers, well, par for the course things will surely happen.

Of course if it is not just the "man in a dress" and "misgendering" posts that assume "controversial" truths that are being removed/discouraged, but even comments at the level of "I am concerned about the safety implications of allowing people with penises into spaces that were traditionally biologically-female-only spaces" then one could say that the platform really isn't interested in debate.

I would like to thank you for this thread , you are able to put into words my feelings on this subject. The posts are thoughtful and eloquent. I just want to bang my head off the keyboard.
I tend to agree with MaryZs DD. I think it is a fad and will die down.
My own DD is 18 and identifies as a feminist. She was very surpprised when she brought transphobia up the other day I went on a rant.
She reads Buzzfeed et al which are always very pro trans. She wasnt hearing the other side. I am going to show her this thread and hopefully she will see where we are all coming from.