Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

And so it begins: Transwoman is running for women's officer of NUS

999 replies

PosieReturningParker · 19/02/2016 15:52

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
onahorsewithnoname · 25/02/2016 21:52

Strike out fail

LumpySpacedPrincess · 25/02/2016 21:55

I really wish it were the case - but it just feels like we're trying to maintain Marquis of Queensbury rules while they're using all the dirty fighting in the book.

And there in a nutshell is what it really means to be a woman.

iwuddarryl · 25/02/2016 22:00

will not call them 'she', it offends me down to the lowest depths of my gut, it is not accurate, it is perpetuating the difficulty we are having with naming the problem which ultimately damages us as women, and to be honest it makes me feel like a fraud - im an atheist and it feels similar to expecting me to say prayers or something to make someone else feel better in a religion I do not share.

this

JAPAB · 25/02/2016 22:07

I agree, greentomato - there comes a time when "rising above it" and "keeping the higher ground" just doesn't work when those with opposing views fight dirty in order to discredit you.

Isn't discrediting opponents, questioning their motives, denigrating positions by referencing believed aspects of the their holders etc, all par for the course in debates on emotive topics?

In this thread all sorts of motives and agendas and thought processes have been imputed to both transactivists and transwomen; we have had talk of 'children playing at politics' and how people are just taking these positions to be 'right on' and because they want to think of themselves as trail-blazers (or words to these effects).

I can't remember too many debates on emotive issues where everyone just played the ball.

whatdoIget · 25/02/2016 22:08

This sums the pronouns thing up for me

And so it begins: Transwoman is running for women's officer of NUS
EnthusiasmDisturbed · 25/02/2016 22:11

Sums up how I feel perfectly

Thank you

PrettyBrightFireflies · 25/02/2016 22:17

Isn't discrediting opponents, questioning their motives, denigrating positions by referencing believed aspects of the their holders etc, all par for the course in debates on emotive topics?

Yes! Yes, yes, yes!

But thats not what is happening! Instead of questioning motives, or even resorting to personal attack (as demonstrated by David Cameron recently), woman are being forcibly silenced! Even here on MN, we cannot express our views and beliefs openly in debate. The 'opposition' has used tactics that have effectively removed our opportunity to engage in debate.

iwuddarryl · 25/02/2016 22:18

Anna is an adult and has freely made her choices which are incredibly harmful to women.

Aren't we pandering to the transactivists by referring to their female names and going out of our way to use the word 'her'?

We shouldn't do it. Why should we be forced to use terms that are in direct conflict with what we are really thinking?
How is that right?
It's actually a form of bullying. Bullying towards women.

At the moment, we've been told forcedinto using 'her' instead of 'he' and a female name instead of a male name, in case we offend someone, but nobody gives a shit about whether women are offended by what's happening to them.

This is how we should be wording things:

The person who calls themselves Anna is an adult and this person has made choices which are incredibly harmful to women

From now on, I for one, will word all sentences so that there is no reference to gender.

There are no rules against that.

iwuddarryl · 25/02/2016 22:25

Yes, the word person will be used a lot from now on.

VincentVanLowe · 25/02/2016 22:26

I agree with you on the pronouns darryl, but I disagree on the names. I think people can choose whatever names and nicknames they like to go by, I don't use my full name in daily life and my shortened one is more commonly given to men. I don't think names should be gendered, and I think it's great when parents ignore the 'rules' when naming kids. I have. So if some dude wants to go by Anna, I think that's up to him. It doesn't make him female or a 'her' though!

iwuddarryl · 25/02/2016 22:28

True about the names. I will go along with the names.

iwuddarryl · 25/02/2016 22:29

But I will not be using the word 'her' from now on.
Unless referring to a person who is actually a 'her'

OhShutUpThomas · 25/02/2016 22:31

I still can't get over that petulant post from that Hareem character. 'Pls gtfo of my life. Goodbye.'
It's actually laughable! I kind of feel like we're giving them too much credit and attention by even discussing it. Neither of them are credible, and they're running in an election that VERY few people know or care about.

I'm starting to feel like it's playing right into their hands talking about it all the time.

They are literally behaving like two spoilt, narcy children.

OhShutUpThomas · 25/02/2016 22:33

And no, I won't be colluding in the lie that a man is a woman because he tells us he is.

OhShutUpThomas · 25/02/2016 22:35

PS let's be honest - the likes on their posts aren't always in double figures, let alone triple. No one gives a shit.

I REALLY give a shit about the whole trans/patriarchy issue.

But this?? They don't deserve the attention.

VincentVanLowe · 25/02/2016 22:41

I dont understand how we can be forced to use 'preferred pronouns' tbh, if it is accepted that we have the right to freedom of faith. It is only very recently and in our English speaking western culture that anyone has suggested that people should be able to choose their pronouns to match their personal beliefs in gender. How is it that we are being forced to adopt the terms of a new and fringe ideology? Don't we have the right to define our own boundaries and beliefs?

Sorry to keep sticking on this point, but if we can't use clear language how can we form our thoughts and communicate with each other?

OhShutUpThomas · 25/02/2016 22:43

Well I'm not going to be forced to use any incorrect pronouns any more. It's against MY beliefs.

VincentVanLowe · 25/02/2016 23:19

I started a thread in site stuff asking for clarification on the pronouns issue. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2579283-Pronouns

FloraFox · 25/02/2016 23:29

I used to use "preferred pronouns" when I thought it wasn't a big deal and I could do it in the spirit of compromise. However it is not possible to unilaterally offer compromise where another group does not want to compromise.

I used to think people who used "MTT" and refused to use pronouns or female names were being a bit harsh. Now I will not recognise any female aspect of an MTT.

After you agree that MTTs might be called women, where do you draw the line? TAs have a point that if you say "transwomen are women" but you are a lesbian who does not want to have sex with an MTT, you are being hypocritical. The answer is that they are not women. Once you start pretending you believe "transwomen are women" you are in the mire.

ShortcutButton · 26/02/2016 00:08

Well it appears my nastiness finally got your attention Sarah. It was not a threat BTW; just a description of the emotion that being silenced and erased, stirs in me. I have no intention of actually physically taking you and Anna on. I mean, what chance would I really stand against 2 fat blokes???

Whilst you are here, would you mind addressing the hundreds of very reasonable and polite posts which have politely raised genuine concerns which women have?

ShortcutButton · 26/02/2016 00:14

Do NOT come at me with that 'white feminism' rubbish. You have precisely NO IDEA about being a marginalised woman

RiverTam · 26/02/2016 00:14

oh dear, do you not like what actual women have to say about your candidate? Also, I'd love to see you screenshot the posts coordinating attacks on TW - could you do that for me, there's a love. No? Because that's absolute fucking bullshit?

When you deal with playground bullies sometimes you have to resort to their own tactics. That's all that's happening here. TAs regularly dish out threats to those that don't agree with them. Not nice, is it, Sarah dear.

I tell you what - if you want to speak to MNers why not ask to come on for a web chat? Plenty of women students here, I'm sure they'd love to speak to either of the candidates. And as you're all students of course you're well versed in the art of debate, you wouldn't run away from debating with those with opposing views, would you? Oh wait, you're NUS, aren't you? My bad.

RomComPhooey · 26/02/2016 00:20

Where's the spat happening? PMs? Elsewhere, like Twitter or FB?

StepAwayFromTheThesaurus · 26/02/2016 00:21

I think on the question of the need to be 'nice' and polite, it's not being immature or like a toddler to not want to be.

Feminists who don't immediately (and politely) defer are marked out as A Problem because they're not confirming to gender stereotypes that say women must always be polite and nice and kind and put everyone before themselves. Women are supposed to smooth tensions over not cause them...

Maybe we should stop being nice and kind...

Sofiria · 26/02/2016 00:25

Looks like Twitter, RomComPhooey. Where men are now being described as 'marginalised women' and we're apparently all privileged white feminists.