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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

And so it begins: Transwoman is running for women's officer of NUS

999 replies

PosieReturningParker · 19/02/2016 15:52

Some of her aims:

Gender neutral sex ed
Women in leadership making room for transwomen (because you know how many women are in leadership roles)
BUS accepting transwomen to compete as women in sports

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
ginandbearit · 22/02/2016 21:05

sirvix brilliant post, I sometimes wish MN had a 'like' button.

donajimena · 22/02/2016 21:59

sirvix I'm quite shocked by your post because its like a light being switched on. I'm sure so many of us have had similar incidents and played them down without giving it a second thought because its so fucking normal Hmm
I'm angry with myself for not getting angrier sooner. In addition to your list I've been wanked at twice on two separate occasions and had a man (neighbour) try and force his way into my flat. I'm a lone parent so I must be 'gagging for it' ? Right?

SirVixofVixHall · 22/02/2016 22:03

I think the truly tragic thing, that many men never get, is that almost all women will have a similar list. Or a worse list. And there are so many small things that I can't even remember all of them now, and I couldn't begin to list them. Sad

LuluJakey1 · 22/02/2016 22:06

Who takes the NUS seriously?
Is this real- looks like one of DH's mates in a badly fitting wig and an unflattering dress.
I am giving up none of our hard won rights as women to men dressed as women. If she wants places - she can have them from the majority that belong still to men.

NOT IN MY NAME AS A WOMAN.

VincentVanLowe · 22/02/2016 22:13

Sirvix yes, and shortcut on the previous page too, as well as the other women who have described their experiences on the thread - yes and yes and yes. Growing up female is full of hard times and negotiating hazards. What planet do these men live on that they can describe not having their wishful thinking validated by women as an example of oppression and violence - even further than that, I've seen numerous men who identify as trans refer to womens refusal to validate them as extermination and genocide.

I mean, can you imagine them coping with a single year as a woman? They don't seem to realise that getting validation for doing perfectly ordinary shit is a male privilege - women are used to doing all sorts of amazing things and going entirely uncredited.

There is a tumblr for all male panels ('manels') and every time I see it I think of how men who identify as trans whine and wail if they aren't represented on every feminist or women's panel, group, etc going. And they get publicity for it! But day in day out women go unrepresented in every corner of our lives.

NameAgeLocation · 22/02/2016 22:18

It's the same old thing, isn't it? We socialise boys to believe that girls OWE them their attention. People who are socalised that way are righteously indignant when they don't get what they believe to be rightfully theirs. And they act out accordingly.

SirVixofVixHall · 22/02/2016 22:19

And instead of one of those amazing women, Caitlin Jenner gets a woman of the year award.

NameAgeLocation · 22/02/2016 22:20

Don't get me started SirVix.

I wish her all the best. But really, what were they thinking?

VincentVanLowe · 22/02/2016 22:28

Can you imagine if there was similar uproar (changing policies and legislation to give some men exceptional rights!) every time a woman was made to feel uncomfortable or threatened by a man giving her a funny look?

VincentVanLowe · 22/02/2016 22:31

Who was the trans identifying man who got a working mother of the year award despite having a female wife at home full time looking after their kids? That was worse than Caitlin imo, serious wtfs.

Snowshimmer · 22/02/2016 22:36

This "woman of the year" used his old male name Bruce to sign up for a golf club membership...
www.people.com/article/i-am-cait-caitlyn-jenner-golf-club-membership-locker-room
Misgendering himself?

YY to all the shit women (and little girls) go through for just being female in a male dominated world...how many of us have not been seriously harassed more than once and not reported or spoken about it at all?

VincentVanLowe · 22/02/2016 22:38

Meghan Stabler was the male working mother of the year, and googling them has just put me in an even worse mood.

PenguinVox · 22/02/2016 22:39

Yes I think the average man has no clue that almost all women have a list like SirVix described.
I was also thinking - most men have no clue what living as a woman is actually like because I don't think there is an equivalent for "living as a man." For me, an example of living as a woman happened the other day - we were going out for a walk and before leaving the house I had to decide whether or not to change my tampon. I decided not to because I hate the feeling of pulling out a dry tampon. But about 10 minutes into the walk I can feel my tampon is actually full and migrating south so I spent the whole walk feeling miserable and stressing about whether or not my tampon was going to leak (but keeping these worries to myself). Earlier that day I'd had that awful "tampon flick" thing and had to wipe the floor and wash my towel in cold water in the sink, feeling stressed because I had to go out somewhere with my 2 young children and this was wasting time and making me late.
Anyway, my point is I would never talk about any of these things with my DH or any man (not through shame exactly but because it just wouldn't occur to me to talk about them with a man) and so even my DH who has lived with a woman for many years doesn't really have a clue what living as a woman is really like. But the problem is that many men think they know what living as a woman is like because they get their views from the media and they think it's all about looking in the mirror and wondering what clothes to wear!
And I don't think it would even occur to them that we have these experiences that are mostly hidden from them because I don't think they have a collective set of experiences that they keep hidden. Or do they?

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 22/02/2016 22:52

My brother is a die-hard transactivist (although not trans himself, he's always on Tumblr, very much "SHE IS CAITLYN", we argue A LOT about trans issues). He is shit hot on anyone misgendering, dead-naming, criticising trans people, calls people TERFs etc (I'm working on him, I promise).

I showed him the picture of Anna, and the video.

Even he snorted and said "No that's a bloke in a wig".

(MN, I'm quoting my brother, not stating my own opinion, please don't delete this post too Hmm )

Roomba · 22/02/2016 23:02

I've been mulling all of this over in my mind since yesterday, and I am finding myself getting increasingly angry the more I've thought and read.

I have gone from thinking that Anna is misguided and clueless to being so incredibly pissed off at basically being told that just to question this is actually oppression, genocide and driving people to suicide!

Like others here I have dealt with constant, ongoing oppression and abuse - societal, domestic and sexual - from before I was even an adult. I'd love to see how some of these online trans warriors dealt with it if their opinions were ignored and belittled because they were female. Only they don't appear to experience the same oppression as the rest of us women, as that isn't what they are complaining about, is it? They're not jumping up and down shouting about how they have 'transitioned' and they now see how shit things are for women, are they? No, they are just interested in no one offending their own tiny minority - at the expense of the rights of 51% of society.

If Anna's platform was 'I may not have been born a woman, but having presented as one I can now see all the things that need improving for women students and I intend to tackle them head on' - that would be one thing (though not ideal). But no. And there can be NO discussion of this - comments on FB are just deleted as 'hate speech', speakers are banned from 'safe spaces' (safe for who?), nasty feminist bigots are blocked on Twitter... this makes me angrier than anything.

Alisvolatpropiis · 22/02/2016 23:16

This is ludicrous. So many pp's have articulated my thoughts on this issue already.

As it happens I am an NUS member and am sorely tempted to email them.

abbsismyhero · 23/02/2016 00:23

ive already emailed them but im not a member of the nus and they have ignored me

ive been raped and i never reported it because it would be made to be my fault i willingly let him into my home i had him in my bed i had sex with him before i did not consent to being anally raped however but that is a sticking point isn't it where does consent begin and end? i would never report it then because i would have been reporting it to a man and now with all that is happening the only choice women are ever going to get is to report to a man have a man in charge he might wear a dress but he is still swinging and still a man and clueless how helpless i felt that day

i feel sick that this is happening in my daughter's lifetime how am i supposed to protect her when all she is being taught in school is gay and proud trans and proud she is taught more about other religions and cultures than her own to be a born female in the church of england that so weird apparently

MrsJamin · 23/02/2016 03:58

Huffpo have published an article about Anna, and thankfully there are some sensible comments. This is just the start, there will be more articles to come, but will debate be allowed?

LuluJakey1 · 23/02/2016 06:44

They are not women in an sense of the word- genetically or physically or chemically. They are men. Men who say they wish to be a woman and are prepard to undergo, in some cases, medical procdures to pretend they are women.

RomiiRoo · 23/02/2016 06:49

I have gone beyond anger to very weary sadness. I would dearly like to understand how this madness has come about. It seems to me a combination of actually a hatred of women (otherwise why co-opt and shoehorn our identities into such a narrow frame); control (the silencing of women) and narcissism (it is all about meeeeeeeee).

I am heartened by the fact that there are men speaking against this too - because their voices may be listened to. And because my (separated) husband believes he is right on by endorsing this erasing of biological womanhood.

I was actually mulling over yesterday that is transgender is where feminism is today, I need to hand in my feminism card. I am going to have to call myself something else; this is not a feminism I agree with or endorse and it is not what generations of women fought for.

It is the whole second wave thing about language - it matters how things are named. My beliefs and my passion are more closely aligned with maternalism, because even if you don't have children, the major cause of inequality is reproductive status and possession of female reproductive organs. Even for women who are unable to, or choose not to have children.

Not that I need to call myself anything, of course.

RomiiRoo · 23/02/2016 06:58

I meant - if transgender is where feminism is today...

But yes, as someone said above - not in my name.

CrayonShavings · 23/02/2016 09:23

Everyone who is angry about this needs to write to their MP, to the NUS, to Maria Miller (Minister for Women and Equalities) who is pushing for self declaration to become law. We must raise our voices and say 'no' to this.

Find your MP here:
www.theyworkforyou.com/

Template letter here:
www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Template-letter-2.pdf

This amazing website:
www.transgendertrend.com/

Twunk · 23/02/2016 09:31

From the Huffpost article:

Lee accuses mainstream feminism of "constantly" forgetting about trans women, and says the NUS should be fighting for all women, "not just a few".

Irony overload....

ShortcutButton · 23/02/2016 09:37

The issues that Trans women have are very very VERY different to the issues women have

Its not that we forget about them. They have nothing to do with uds Confused

Its the same as saying women forget about the issue of bull fighting it's just totally disconnected

VincentVanLowe · 23/02/2016 09:44

Transgender isn't where feminism is, it is part of the backlash. Transgender is an entryist movement. Look at the f-word (UK site) for example. Ten plus years ago radical feminists were occasionally published on there, the comments were filled with lively discussion which included both liberal and radical feminists, and the site gained a certain amount of credibility in mainstream press. The leadership changed, a man who identifies as trans was very influential and gained a position, that was the end of that. Their posts have been wishy washy for years now and they have few comments any more. This has happened at multiple feminist sites and offline too, even Dyke marches and Reclaim The Night.

In the last decade trans activists have used male privilege to infiltrate feminism and become it's mouthpieces. They've done the same in the LGB movement. It has been going on for longer than that but it's been crazy in the past five to ten years how fast they have gained power. It has only been possible because of their male privilege, feminists are women like any other and we are susceptible to believing men over women and prioritising men and catering to male entitlement just like anyone else, though we battle ourselves over it and we raise our consciousness to be more aware of it.

They use their male privilege too in that they have better access to money (and fewer caring responsibilities) to spread propaganda and make activism a full time job. There are some extremely wealthy males who identify as trans, and there are plenty of abandoned wives and children behind them. How old is Anna Lee? Does a woman the same age generally have less luxury of time and resources to pursue long uni courses and student politics?

There are tons of males who identify as trans in the IT industry and they have definitely used their male privilege to influence twitter and Facebook. Look at any male dominated forum, whether it be anarchist, socialist, sports or gaming related, a fan forum, 4chan, or Wikipedia - you'll see women treated with the same disdain as always, and there is always a resident man who claims to be trans who the men who don't claim to be trans all support and believe without question. Male privilege - they are still treated as One Of The Boys at every level, because no one actually believes they are women.

We are stuck with these entryists because feminism is not allowed to be exclusive, to set it's own goals and boundaries. It is non feminists who won't let us set boundaries, they constantly try to 'gotcha'
us - if we take a critical look at any thing, they leap with 'well some women like that' etc, but so what? Taking a critical look is not condemning women who like something, it's applying our political principles to examining an issue. No other political movement is policed by others like this.

It feels endless and miserable and like there is no hope but it always makes me feel better to remember - they spend so much effort controlling and silencing us, why? Because we are dangerous. Not in the same way that males (identifying as trans or not) are - they aren't afraid we are going to murder and rape or raise an army against them. We are dangerous because we have the babies, we raise the children, we have influence. We need to use it whenever we can, we need to ignore and resist and defy their attempts to control us.