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Original poster

Rapist has sentence reduced as judge says there is no indication that it was anything other than a 'single impusive act'

185 replies

treaclesoda · 18/02/2016 05:19

link to newspaper report here

I came across this newspaper report and I couldn't believe what I was reading. A man who rapes a stranger in a car park sounds to me like the very definition of someone who is a danger to women, not just someone who made a minor impulsive error of judgement. Such a horrible crime totally minimised.

OP posts:
itllallbefine · 20/02/2016 10:08

i fully expect any replies will now focus entirely on the fact that kissing someone on the forehead is not the same as rape and will ignore any other points I have raised, so i regret using that example. it was simply intended to get the heart of what it is about the penis and the vagina that makes the act violent.

cadnowyllt · 20/02/2016 11:02

Requiring that violence is a pre requisite of any claim of rape is not helpful...

In English & Welsh law there is no such pre-requisite. The definition is merely insertion of a penis coupled with a lack of consent.

BathtimeFunkster · 20/02/2016 11:11

The definition is merely insertion of a penis coupled with a lack of consent.

And that is an act of violence.

It is an act of violence by definition. It is a violation of bodily autonomy.

Arguing about whether it is like other acts of violence is insulting.

You might as well argue that Harold Shipman's victims had nice gentle deaths.

You want to define violence in a male way - as a brutal act that causes immediate pain and visible harm.

But I reject that definition of violence. It is violent to do harm to people's bodies, even if you do that harm with a penis the person is too young/unconscious/desperate/naive to know is where it should not be.

cadnowyllt · 20/02/2016 11:23

Bath I think you have misinterpreted by words. All I say at 11:02 is that the statutory definition of rape in E&W does not include the need to prove that any violence as occurred per se.

I didn't realise there was a male way of defining violence. I must have missed that day off school.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 20/02/2016 11:30

I think men and women can experience violence differently

A man can use his size and his ability to physically overpower me to intimidate me this can feel violently threatening

Of course this can be done to another man less likely to as they will view them as more of an equal in terms of physical strength

Original poster
treaclesoda · 20/02/2016 11:44

Well, if someone kissed me on the forehead and I didn't want them to, I'd probably think 'eeww, didn't like that' , whereas if a man rubbed his penis on my forehead I would find it much more upsetting.

So yes, I do think there is something specific about 'the penis' that is relevant to this discussion.

OP posts:
RufusTheReindeer · 20/02/2016 13:18

No one is saying that rape has to require violence, where has someone said that

I am genuinely confused

cadnowyllt · 20/02/2016 13:27

Rufus Seemingly your comments is related to my posts. In turn my post was commenting on It'llallbefine's last sentence of her post at 10:02.

RufusTheReindeer · 20/02/2016 13:55

Nope not you cad i thought your post made sense in a legal...sense (too many sense Hmm)

My comment is more regarding its posts

itllallbefine · 20/02/2016 14:10

Well perhaps i am not understanding how a violent act can require no violence rufus ?

RufusTheReindeer · 20/02/2016 15:12

its

I think thats the problem and i dont know how to explain it or my thought processes Smile

All i know is that i dont believe that anyone needs to have any physical pain or marks for it to be rape

itllallbefine · 20/02/2016 15:26

rufus - i totally agree !

RufusTheReindeer · 20/02/2016 17:21

its

Smile
WilLiAmHerschel · 20/02/2016 17:32

great - so women who feel guilty because their rapes weren't violent given the common usage and understanding of that word, are batshit crazy

I don't know if you are purposefully misinterpreting things or what. I was a victim of what you, it'llbefine, would class as a non-violent rape. I woke up to find a great big man on top of me with his penis in my vagina. I didn't fight him off, I was confused. I had no idea how I'd got there. I still don't know how I ended up in that situation and it happened 7 or 8 years ago when I was at university. He never hit me, he didn't restrain me. I couldn't have got him off me if I tried as he was double my size but the thought of stopping him didn't even enter my head. When he had finished using my body for his own pleasure he got off and was perfectly polite. It was still a violent act. Btw I hurt down there for days afterwards. If I had not hurt, it would have still been rape and it would have still been a violent act. He forced himself in me again and again. Can you not see how that is violent? Sorry I probably should delete this but I don't understand what is wrong with you.

DraenorQueen · 20/02/2016 17:37

Sorry I probably should delete this but I don't understand what is wrong with you.
Neither do I but remember you're arguing with someone who claims that drugging someone and anally raping them is "not a violent act." Just horrific.
Sorry you've had that awful experience, for what it's worth I've experienced similar and I spent years understanding it and trying to work out what I did wrong.

WilLiAmHerschel · 20/02/2016 17:43

I feel a bit stupid for posting now.Blush

Thank you Draenor and I'm sorry it happened to you too.

DraenorQueen · 20/02/2016 17:49

Nothing to apologise for. I've posted my absolute worst experiences on MN, under various names, because there's always someone who can empathize and help you understand how you're feeling.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 21/02/2016 00:29

willIAm - that's a horrible thing you underwent, you too Draenor. So sorry you had that experience and hope that some of the wittering on this thread hasn't upset you. Thanks

itllallbefine · 21/02/2016 09:13

WilLiAmHerschel - i am so sorry about what happened to you, and i would of course class that as violent rape.

Coldest · 21/02/2016 12:31

What the actual fuck is happening !

scallopsrgreat · 21/02/2016 14:16

"great - so women who feel guilty because their rapes weren't violent given the common usage and understanding of that word, are batshit crazy" Only you are saying this. How a woman defines their own rape is entirely up to them. That is absolutely their prerogative. That doe not negate the fact that rape is a violent act.

scallopsrgreat · 21/02/2016 14:20

WilLiAm Flowers

itllallbefine · 21/02/2016 15:03

Coldest - show where i said that a large man laying on top of a woman and forcing his penis into his vagina was not a violent act !? What the actual fuck are you on about ? I refer you to my post Sat 20-Feb-16 10:02:44

itllallbefine · 21/02/2016 15:22

scallops - people are saying on here that all rape is violent. This stands in clear opposition to the belief some rapes are not violent. I was not the one who equated non violent rape to "unicorn shit".

I have not said that all rapes are non violent or even a significant number are, and indeed i know that most are violent, but proving violence has occurred is problematic ? I've given examples of rape that i believe to be non violent, either because the victim is drugged and therefore no force is required, or because the victim was under age and participated with some enthusiasm or gave consent in situation where they were coerced etc...instead of arguing any of the points people have reacted hysterically to the idea that a penis could be put into a vagina in a non violent way when the women did not consent, i still don't see how that is controversial.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 21/02/2016 15:34

Your view isn't controversial it's a view I hear often from people who think rape should be graded into bad rape not so bad rape violent rape not so violent rape

It takes away the horror of what rape is

carry on with your oh so controversial views it's nothing I haven't heard before (well maybe the drugging and raping not being violent not heard that one) while thankfully the rest of society moves (slowly) on from these outdated views