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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

proposed legislation in scotland - licensed saunas and legalised prostitution

409 replies

weeonion · 30/11/2015 12:32

A consultation is currently happening in Scotland to make charges to the laws around prostitution, brothel keeping and pimping. No matter what you think - it would be good to have your voice, experiences and opinions heard in this. They have just extended the deadline to the 8th December so if time has been an issue for you - you now have another week!

Responses prepared electronically should be sent by e-mail to:
[email protected]
Responses prepared in hard copy should be sent by post to:
Jean Urquhart MSP
Room M3.20
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
You may also contact Jean Urquart’s office by telephone on (0131) 348 5052

OP posts:
VestalVirgin · 10/12/2015 18:33

Surely you all must be aware that prostitution is here to stay, so why not focus energies on helping actual victim's instead of a futile attempt to abolish something that you as an outsider are against but for many it's a happy way of life.
But of course trafficking is a portion of the industry so why not tackle that and help people who need and the most important thing 'want' help

That's the point - ever since prostitution was legalized in Germany, police cannot just walk into brothels and look for trafficking victims. Because it is all oh so very legal.
Such is the result of the "a job like any other" thinking. How can you tell us to "tackle that" but at the same time oppose legislation that would help in tackling that?

Your argumentation that "prostitution is here to stay" is nonsensical. I bet a lot of people thought that in Sweden, and see what has been done - it is not accepted anymore by the majority of the population.

Maybe it will help your understanding to tell you that I do not want to help you. I don't care about you.

If your beloved "job" has to go for the safety and wellbeing for all those trafficking victims, well, that is what I am going to fight for. You will just have to find another job.

draemous · 10/12/2015 18:34

"police cannot just walk into brothels and look for trafficking victims. Because it is all oh so very legal. "

Trafficking for sex/labour is illegal in Germany.

OneMoreCasualty · 10/12/2015 18:54

That would be another personal attack in a deeply unpleasant post, dr. You've been here often enough under multiple names to know the rules.

draemous · 10/12/2015 18:58

I don't care if you interpret it as an "attack". People who use "rapist" as a defamatory unfounded insult need to be called out.

OneMoreCasualty · 10/12/2015 18:59

For avoidance of doubt, I don't think dr is Sapphire - that last post was a bit ambiguous.

OneMoreCasualty · 10/12/2015 19:00

Actually, it was you calling her "fucking scum" that was the attack.

Luckily you'll be gone yet again soon so ta ra, chuck.

Snowshimmer · 10/12/2015 19:01

Mumsnet must be seen as quite influential and powerful, or these non-Mners wouldn't bother to come here and triple post all over the place everytime prostitution is brought up on this board.

draemous · 10/12/2015 19:01

"I don't think dr is Sapphire "

Well done Sherlock.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/12/2015 19:02

The safety of those working in the sex industry is far more important than your personal preferences of what you find disgusting

"The sex industry" is disgusting. As others have pointed the safety of prostitutes is best safe guarded by there being no "sex industry"

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/12/2015 19:06

Sorry I should say the safety of women.

VestalVirgin · 10/12/2015 19:11

For avoidance of doubt, I don't think dr is Sapphire - that last post was a bit ambiguous.

Ah. I think he's a troll. May or may not be identical with Sapphire. I will not reply to any of his posts, as that would be feeding a troll.

Mumsnet must be seen as quite influential and powerful, or these non-Mners wouldn't bother to come here and triple post all over the place everytime prostitution is brought up on this board.

I would like to think that, but the truth is probably that they have too much time on their hands, and just do all this just in case Mumsnet might become influential and powerful some day.

OneMoreCasualty · 10/12/2015 19:14

He's a PBP, it's just I posted in such a way about personal attacks that it might've looked like I was referring to Sapphire, who I don't think is a PBP or a troll. She can use capital letters for a start Wink

draemous · 10/12/2015 19:14

"""The sex industry" is disgusting"

So what. There are plenty of people who think same-sex or inter-racial relationships and marriage is also "disgusting". Should people's opinion on what they find "disgusting" be a contributing factor when it comes to deciding on laws?

"As others have pointed the safety of prostitutes is best safe guarded by there being no "sex industry""

Not gonna happen my little man-hating friend. Not gonna happen.

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 19:15

Wow I wouldn't have wasted time trying to discuss this had I known about these posters, thanks for the heads up

What a ridiculous argument many of you have failed to put forward. None of you seem to be able to accept there are thousands of different women in sex work for a thousand different reasons. Some awful, and many because theyre happy

If you can't see that claiming someone is mentally ill, deluded or being paid to have a difference in view to yourselves is disgustingly egotistical is never going to be a sensible discussion.

Likewise vestal I've no interest in you either thanks. And if any of you were to actually meet any of the women you profess to care about I'm sure they would see straight through you and your " help". Your egos seem to be prohibiting you from any capabilities to empathise.

I can understand women who work in this industry when they say that abolitionists like yourselves are just another bunch like all the pro life protesters America is currently overrun with. A pointless exercise to attempt to reason with you.

Fortunately vestal my job is going nowhere. Prostitution unfortunately has a dark side, but it also has many positives too.
You may dislike it and the women like me who work happily as prostitutes but hopefully one day you'll come to realise just because you don't understand it doesn't mean you have to fear it or insist that women who choose to work in the sex industry are all wrong and mentally ill.

draemous · 10/12/2015 19:16

It's the oldest profession (or at least one of the oldest). It is always going to exist in one form or another no matter what model of law is in place.

VestalVirgin · 10/12/2015 19:16

What does PBP mean?

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 19:18

A quick check of ip addresses can show that I am not Dr.
Oh someone has different opinion to you? Got to be something fishy going on?! Haha, so childish

OneMoreCasualty · 10/12/2015 19:19

Sapphire, a lot of us are putting forward the argument that the existence of the sex industry is harmful overall as it wouldn't exist in a truly equal society, an argument you seemed to agree with somewhat upthread but then went back to calling people extremists for no discernible reason.

That's why it's hard to talk to you.

OneMoreCasualty · 10/12/2015 19:21

And again, I made it very clear that I do NOT think tou are dr, though I think dr has been on the thread earlier and was banned.

Happy now? It's much easier if you read and engage with the actual posts and posters, not what you think they might be saying.

VestalVirgin · 10/12/2015 19:21

That's why it's hard to talk to you.

And getting us nowhere. I have pointed out why legalising prostitution makes it harder to help trafficking victims.

And that, if "sex work" is a job like any other, then it can be abolished, just like a lot of other jobs have in the past.

OneMoreCasualty · 10/12/2015 19:22

So - no one said that all women who worked in the sex industry were mentally ill - you've made that up to give an extreme argument to rail against and then you call us extremists.

It's like juggling goldfish; slippery.

VestalVirgin · 10/12/2015 19:23

... and Sapphire doesn't seem to have really thought about that, and I don't feel like repeating myself. That's what I meant to post.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/12/2015 19:25

Sapphire I'm quoting another poster from a thread about stripping. It applies equally to prostitution.

At the end of the day, even if you could produce unimpeachable evidence that every single stripper has chosen stripping over being a doctor, makes (and pays taxes on) more money than a banker and fondly recounts tales of her stripping days to her children, I would still be opposed to stripping as it both reflects and reinforces the position of women in society as objects to be purchased for sexual service to men

draemous · 10/12/2015 19:26

"it both reflects and reinforces the position of women in society as objects to be purchased for sexual service to men"

This is your own opinion, not fact.

OneMoreCasualty · 10/12/2015 19:29

Yy lass.