Petition to stop trans woman being sent to make prison

[FriendofBill]

www.change.org/p/bath-magistrates-prison-govenor-of-hm-prison-bristol-british-judicial-system-stop-transgender-woman-tara-hudson-from-being-sent-to-an-all-male-prison-in-bristol

I came across this on change.
Contentious issue.
My thoughts are that there needs to be a safe space for women...does that necessarily include who identifies as women?

I know there are some learned types on here, I would be very interested to hear your views.

Most trans people don't "complete" transition in the sense of having surgery on their genitals - I was pretty shocked/surprised when I found that out. I think a lot of people assume that's how it's generally done, but it's not. I think it's something like 80% of MTT will always have their penises intact.

I'm not sure what, in Tara's case her doctor "medically declaring" her to be a woman actually means. I think the "reconstructive surgery" is deliberately obfuscating - are we talking about the breast implants?

I find that telegraph article pretty shocking. Not one word about protecting female prisoners, or any kind of exploration for why prisons are even sex-segregated in the first place. Not one. "The dangers of a trans woman being placed in a male prison are obvious and concerning". OUTRAGE! The dangers of setting precedents for male bodies in women's prisons? Meh. Who cares? I wonder, where then should "genderqueer" people be placed if they commit criminal offences? What should HM prison service do then? Make them pick a side? or just file in the box marked woman/other?

I should say I have no objection to trans people being safely housed in prisons. I'm not a heartless cow. But I've only just had my eyes opened to all this stuff, and I'm not feeling the love for erasing women's rights in favour of gender rights because I'm quite wound up about it all right now.

You don't need to have your penis removed in order to get a GRC.

If, after the length of time Tara has been transitioning, their doctors haven't issued one, it's either because they don't believe that Tara means to make their transition permanent, or Tara hasn't asked.

I don't think anyone wants harm to come to TW in any circumstance, even if they are violent criminals. This is about minimising the risk to the female prison population, surely?

It's relatively to easy to get a gender recognition certificate.

You need to have lived 2 years in your new gender, and provide a report from a registered gender dysphoria doctor, and one from any doctor.

There is no requirement to have had surgery, but the doctor must say why not, if you haven't.

So basically there ARE people with penises in female prisons already.

It takes around 14 weeks to get one, and around 95% are accepted.

www.gires.org.uk/law/gender-recognition-panel

Thank you for this thread. I was sent a copy of the petition today and was really annoyed by it. I emailed change.org to find out when their petition to ensure woman only spaces for women in prison would be coming out...

Thank you for your insights all.

As it hasn't been mentioned...I think it crucial to consider that Tara could, in theory, impregnate the women.

It seems the welfare of this one person is being placed above the welfare of the women's prison population.

I think Tara will be at particular risk in a men's prison, and it may be difficult to place her on a vulnerable prisoners wing, given they will be chock full of sex offenders, but it's the job of the staff in a men's prison to manage the risk, not the job of female inmates to accept any random penis owner who 'identifies' as female in their nick.

Tara has had breast implants but still has a penis, according to her mother.

Her mother also implied that Tara has not lived the last six years solely as a female. The last year, potentially. Which probably explains the lack of GRC, which requires you to live as a female for 2 years before it can be awarded.

Tara severely beat up a woman. Legally, this cannot affect where she is sentenced - the decision has to be made upon her legal gender, and the risks to/from her in both environments. The magistrates agreed that there was a risk posed to her if she was in the general male prison population, so she is segregated. They assessed that she would potentially pose a risk to women in a women's prison, hence that argument being thrown out.

The petition is bollocks.

"As it hasn't been mentioned...I think it crucial to consider that Tara could, in theory, impregnate the women."

Would being on female hormones stop this? Do "pre-op" trans women take female hormones?

Is my understanding of these petitions correct, in as much as anyone can start one for any reason?

That's interesting, Anchor. Where did this come from as I couldn't anything in the reports? I did suspect that given that the guidelines don't actually require a GRC, that there had to be more to the story, ie that there was a deliberate decision based on her individual case that she ought not to be in a women's prison. It actually makes me feel better about this, because it seems like there has been an effort to assess not just the risks to Tara, but the risks to the women in the women's prison, which is exactly as it should be. If actually the story here is that MTT aren't just being chucked willy nilly (?!) into women's prisons with no assessment of risk, then I am a little less worried than before.

Yes, me too Freshwater.

www.change.org/en-GB/guides/how-an-online-petition-works

Info here

Surely this is just a case of her going to the GP for a certificate. They are the "body" we have authorised to make this decision - it's not up to us, or a petition, or even a judge or a court. It's the GP's call.

The petition now has 50,000 signatures.

I wonder if Tara appeared more like a regular female (average size breasts, clothing, appearance) if there would be the same response.

According to Tara's profile on adultwork, s/he offers (at £120 for 1/2 hour)

a '7inch surprise'

So someone is a fucking liar.

Also, someone on 3rd May reports

"Stay away, I went to meet her a while ago in her run down flat
she was a lot taller than I expected & was more manly than her pics suggest, when I said she didn't look like her pics she went crazy & so I left"

www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?63680-Tia-Star-new-escort-in-Bath/page3

I do find it very curious that Tara is being described in the media as a 'make-up artist', rather than as a transsexual prostitute.

They are obviously aware of this, because the pictures have been taken from Twitter/Instagrams which makes it very clear that Tara is an adult worker, and doesn't mention anything about make-up.

Does that have any relevance to her conviction and or how she gets imprisoned Rick?

I think it's very relevant how the media chooses to portray people, yes.

One line would be 'violent thug who boasted of seven-inch cock wants to go to women's prison'

but instead they've picked some sexy photos and dutifully reported that Tara's mum says that Tara barely has a penis.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3291097/Transgender-woman-born-man-sent-male-prison-despite-fears-safety-following-assault-conviction.html

Yes, Rick's alternative headlines show the reality of the situation!

Fair enough the media do portray things with an agenda but seems strange to me that on a board about feminism ( where sex work is often discussed) that your using that as a stick to prod her with.

I'd also imagine her mum doesn't know the size of her penis

I'm not using it as a stick, I'm saying it's curious how the media, which likes to slut shame women, is deciding to say that a violent transsexual prostitute is actually a docile makeup artist.

There is a spectrum between:

1. Woman teacher has secret double life (nobody's business)

and in the middle:

1. Transsexual convicted of violent crime, quietly serves six weeks in prison without complaining

and what we have here which is

1. Transsexual committed of violent crime against a woman, claims to have a very small penis and wants to be sent to women's prison

Obviously 'transsexual prostitute' gives a very different impression from 'make-up artist'.

Also the reports on the review site are that Tara is rather tall, which is a significant fact also.

There is NO word in the papers on the violence that Tara perpetuated.

The headline could easily be 'Six foot Tara Hudson left victim X needing stitches after unprovoked attack in a bar' (sample headline, I have no idea what the facts of the attack were), but instead we aren't hearing a word about the attack, but instead how hard done by Tara has been.

Also Tara's Twitter, and Tara's mum statement suggests that Tara has an alcohol problem. So you could have perfectly justifiably ended up with a headline like 'Violent six-foot tall transsexual alcoholic who boasted of a seven-inch penis wants to be sent to woman's prison'.

Nobody would sign a petition after reading that.

Sorry, 'Violent six-foot tall transsexual alcoholic prostitute', even.