Petition to stop trans woman being sent to make prison

[FriendofBill]

www.change.org/p/bath-magistrates-prison-govenor-of-hm-prison-bristol-british-judicial-system-stop-transgender-woman-tara-hudson-from-being-sent-to-an-all-male-prison-in-bristol

I came across this on change.
Contentious issue.
My thoughts are that there needs to be a safe space for women...does that necessarily include who identifies as women?

I know there are some learned types on here, I would be very interested to hear your views.

Tara still has a penis, that puts the women inmates in a very vulnerable position.

Can a person with XY chromosomes and a fully functioning penis get their passport changed to say "female" just because they have fake breasts and style themselves in a traditionally glamorous, female manner?

Yes, if a doctor will issue them with a gender reassignment certificate.

They very much can, Settling. This is where we're headed.

And it will be impossible to even have the debate about balancing the potential harm that could be inflicted on Tara by being housed in a male prison, with the potential harm that could be inflicted by Tara, a convicted violent offender, on other vulnerable women if housed in a female prison, because to attempt to do so is deemed "transphobic".

Do we know who it was she assaulted by the way? Was it a woman? I can't tell from the news reports.

If that starts happening in greater numbers, there are bound to incidents that the greater public find shocking and unacceptable.

I think we all just want to be kind to people struggling to find their place in the world, even if we really don't entirely understand. As long as transwomen have fully transitioned, I might personally find it unfathomable, but I realise they are not any additional danger to me in the ladies' room, etc. But, if men with penises are allowed in female spaces, it won't end well. Too much room for the manipulative and unscrupulous to take advantage of the situation.

"Do we know who it was she assaulted by the way? Was it a woman? I can't tell from the news reports."

I wondered the same thing. None of the reports I've seen about this make any mention of victim.

of THE victim. Sorry, must remember to include all the words

"Tara still has a penis, that puts the women inmates in a very vulnerable position."

I dont' accept that having a penis makes someone dangerous. Plenty of crooked Tories have penises. I would feel safer sharing a living space with someone like Johnathan Aiken or Neil Hamilton than Tara.

Rape does not necessarily require a penis. Tara has shown that she is dangerous by her behaviour already. She is in jail for a violent crime: assault.

And it will be impossible to even have the debate about balancing the potential harm that could be inflicted on Tara by being housed in a male prison, with the potential harm that could be inflicted by Tara, a convicted violent offender, on other vulnerable women if housed in a female prison, because to attempt to do so is deemed "transphobic".

Tara is an individual and a risk assessment has to be made based on her personality and history of bad behaviour. I feel that the best place to house her should be decided by prison officers, pychologists or maybe a judge.

The press are loving the nudie photos of her, aren't they? In the selfie in the bathroom mirror here - is that a gun she's posing with? Or the tattoo of a gun? Hmmmmm. Interesting.

I don't disagree that individual decisions need to be taken about individuals, but my worry is that in the rush to not discriminate against trans people, women get thrown under the bus.

It is a repeat offence. She has more than one conviction for assault by beating. So there is presumably more than one victim.

"the potential harm that could be inflicted on Tara by being housed in a male prison, with the potential harm that could be inflicted by Tara, a convicted violent offender, on other vulnerable women if housed in a female prison"

Why is she a "violent offender", and yet the female inmates are "vulnerable"?

Do you think the women are in prison for parking fines?
Many of them will also be in for violent offences, often murder too.

I said "other" vulnerable women. I have no doubt that Tara is in some ways very vulnerable.

More than 80% of women in jail are there for non-violent offences like non payment of fines or repeated shoplifting. They are massively more likely to have experienced violence than have committed it.

(I did my dissertation on this by the way. So yeah).

Freshwater beat me to it - women are far more likely to be given custodial sentences for non violent crimes than men are.

Also true, Lurcio. I did my studying back in the dark ages, and when i was researching women in the justice system, it was still OK to just look at born women, so I'm sure I'm a dinosaur or a second wave throwback or something. But still. I doubt that much has changed.

yet the female inmates are "vulnerable"?

I'd suggest they're vulnerable to a man sized/built, aggressive inmate with a penis....

"I'd suggest they're vulnerable to a man sized/built, aggressive inmate with a penis...."

Not sure more so than an agressive female with a makeshift weapon and maybe a bunch of friends.
Even given her violent convictions, it's possible that she'll be the one in more danger in a women's prison.
I think the penis is a red herring.

I think the penis is a red herring.

Less of a "red herring" and more of "the bottom line," I'd say.

It is an international human right that females have a right to be in a separate estate when in prison to people whose sex is male.

It might have changed, but in the 1990s the most common single reason for women to be sent to prison was for non-payment of fines issued for not having a television licence.

Does anyone have any history on this violent offender? Was the assault on a biological man or a biological woman? What are the previous convictions?

Saskia

I'd bet good money on that being completely untrue - well a £10 at least. What have you got to back it up ?

"It might have changed, but in the 1990s the most common single reason for women to be sent to prison was for non-payment of fines issued for not having a television licence."

that's not a very useful stat, because most of those get short sentences and will be out quickly.

Females:
Violence against the person: 28%
Theft and handling stolen goods: 16%
Other offences: 15%
Drug offences: 14%
Robbery: 9%
Burglary: 7%
Fraud/forgery: 5%
Sexual offences: 3%
Motoring offences: 1%

Males:
Violence against the person: 27%
Sexual offences: 16%
Drug offences: 14%
Robbery: 12%
Burglary: 10%
Other offences: 10%
Theft and handling stolen goods: 6%
Fraud and forgery: 2%
Motoring offences: 1%

The rate of assaults in women's prisons has been somewhat lower since 2009 than in men's prisons; previously it was higher.

So on the whole the proportion of violent prisoners in male and female prisons is similar, however male prisons have far more sex offenders.

It is not really clear to me that Tara Hudson, legally a man, would be less at risk of violence in a women's prison.

People such as Gary Glitter have come through HMP Bristol (sadly) unscathed, so it is unclear to me that Tara Hudson is at fact at risk here.

sorry those are the % of prisoners by category of offence at a given point in time.

Well, you'd lose your £10, because that was the case at the time.

That was to cadnowyllt - oh, and backing it up, news reports, current affairs programmes, campaigns against it happening, the experience of social workers and people who worked with ex-offenders. IIRC there were even questions asked about it in parliament.