Petition to stop trans woman being sent to make prison

[FriendofBill]

www.change.org/p/bath-magistrates-prison-govenor-of-hm-prison-bristol-british-judicial-system-stop-transgender-woman-tara-hudson-from-being-sent-to-an-all-male-prison-in-bristol

I came across this on change.
Contentious issue.
My thoughts are that there needs to be a safe space for women...does that necessarily include who identifies as women?

I know there are some learned types on here, I would be very interested to hear your views.

I'm afraid I'm a bit old fashioned, if he has a penis, then he's a man.

I'm sure that he'll be at just as much risk as a "pretty" 22 year old man would be.

it probably was the most common reason, but the tv licence prisoners would have been a very small % of the prison population. Also the number of prison sentences for tv licence non-payment is down by almost 90% since the 1990s

also the female prison population has trebled since that time.

An altogether persuasive argument - where do I send the tenner ? A charity of your choice perhaps.

RickRoll Those figures are I'm guessing from more recently, not from 20+ years ago? Also, each category covers multiple offences - eg: violence against the person includes everything from premeditated murder down to common assault. Technically, both crimes come under the same category, but they are quite different crimes. And yes, non-payment of fines does come with a shorter sentence, but people convicted of it will still become part of the prison population.

RickRoll Sorry, just saw your most recent post - yes, that's why I said I wasn't sure if it was the same now. I work in a different field nowadays, and also am aware that it has been made a lot easier to pay for a licence. Back then, it was all in one go, or nothing.

cadnowyllt Sorry, I'm not engaging with someone who makes thinly veiled attempts to support the rapist, Ched Evans.

That's alright.

I'm quite tickled by the idea of a penis being a red herring. I've heard a lot of different theories as regards what trans people's penises (penii?) are and are not, but that's a new one on me.

I think the red penis herring is the bottom line. It's not specifically that this person themselves poses a serious threat (though they may do, as I can't seem to find out what offence(s) they have been jailed for). It's that its the thin end of the wedge that weakens the ability to protect women in prison from people who definitely are a serious threat to them. this from the British Associate of Gender Identity Specialists, ie the people who work with trans issues, explains why it needs urgent consideration. Sexual predators are thrilled about the prospect of being able to access women only spaces, and campaigns like this are paving the way for it.

Male bodied people, regardless of how they "identify" should not be in women's prisons and their crimes should not be recorded as having been committed by women.

Where they are put is not my problem - tas can campaign for that, as long as it is not with women.

The penis = red herring was tongue in cheek

The comment was in response to:
"I'd suggest they're vulnerable to a man sized/built, aggressive inmate with a penis...."
Which suggested to me that the penis (owned by Tara) was the source of the threat.
Anyway, more generally, rather than this case, I agree with you.

She needs to be put in solitary.

She identifies as a woman and looks like a woman so this does put her at risk from male inmates.

However, she has not completed her transformation and still has a penis so it isn't appropriate for her to go to a female prison either. Particularly as she is in prison for a violent assault - she might have the strength/stature of a man or at least her physical capabilities are disproportionate to other female inmates.

Solitary in either prison will protect her and others - she has been violent which is why she's in there in the first place.

I'm sure they will put her in solitary in the male prison.

Solitary confinement is banned under article 3 of the Geneva Convention on Human Rights. It's a bit fucked up that supporters of a movement concerned with equal rights should be advocating it under any circumstances.

Aren't sex offenders/paedophiles sometimes put in solitary confinement for their own safety?

Only as a temporary measure. Generally they are housed in specialist wings for vulnerable offenders.

This article implies that her transition is complete:

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11960559/Tara-Hudson-Prisons-have-a-serious-problem-with-transgender-people.html#disqus_thread

If she has completely transitioned, ie. no penis, then she probably belongs in the women's facility.

Her mum was on the radio this afternoon. She said that although 'he' knew at aged 5 that he wanted to be a girl, at approx 26? Now, whilst having lived as a woman for a very long time, she hadn't completed the final transition, so hadn't got the certificate.
Mum made it sound like you could only get the certificate once the process had been completed- penis removed.
Did I misunderstand / misinterpret mum then?

Maybe she could identify as innocent and avoid prison altogether.

'SHE' HAS A PENIS

"Last night Tara’s mother, 48, said that her daughter still had the vestige remains of a penis, despite having 34EE breasts.

She said the hormone treatment had shrunken Tara’s ‘manhood’ and she was due to have it removed ‘at some point’ and was still taking hormone treatment she has been receiving for some years."

It's a penis.

Not a vestigal penis.

An actual, fully intact penis.

Hmmm, sounds like we don't have the crucial bit of info here. Is it to delicate for the press to report wether she still has a penis? That seems to be the crux of the matter.

X-post!

Then the Telegraph article is misreporting. (probably nothing new there!)

Maybe she could identify as innocent and avoid prison altogether.

And yet, solitary confinement happens everyday within certain Cat A prisons.