My Transgender Kid

[kua]

Anyone watching? Half way through, quite different kids, though gender stereotypes seem to be a quite strong theme.

It was not one of the guys in the film, it was on a video clip.

I felt very uncomfortable about the person who said he had had sex with women who had not known he was trans. To me that does not seem right

do you mind if I ask why?

I'm honestly not being funny I do understand I think, it's just that if it happened in the course of a ONS the truth is we don't know anytbing about anybody we choose to have sex in that way with. they don't owe us their life story any more than we would. there's a chance that we might not even know the correct name anyway. I'm assuming as they have always identified as a boy/man and have transitioned then technically they aren't lying to their ONS. given how friends and family react when they have known and loved a person for many many years, why would you tell someone you only intend on spending a night with?

if the relationship is something more than granted the partner should be told.

but are any of us that forth coming with personal information from our past when it comes to casual relationships or ONS?

I honestly can see both sides here.

I don't understand, either.

What does it matter, really, that people you have sex with think they are women, hound dogs, or sexy underwear models?

Yes, you would want to know what is going on in their heads if you plan to have a relationship with them but if not, it probably doesn't matter.

What do you mean by sex?

Do you mean he penetrated her with something, without her knowing what that thing was?

Because that would be rape.

If you mean he just went down on her, I don't see an issue.

Gileswithachainsaw and CoteDAzur it would matter to me. I can't say whether it would matter to other people, I can guess it would to some, to some not, and to some they think it would not matter (and it would) and vice versa.

I feel it is dishonest to misrepresent yourself in such an intimate way. I don't need to know if the person serving me in a shop or interviewing me for a job, etc etc is trans or not. But if someone is doing something very intimate, such as having sex, or an intimate examination, I think they should be truthful about something like this.

By the same token i would be upset if I requested a female doctor and a trans women doctor saw me (as a patient for an intimate exam - if it were a sore throat etc I would not personally be requesting a female doctor).

Does that answer your question?

I am interested to know if anyone else would be bothered by this? Or willing to admit they would be bothered.

PS I've never had a one night stand so the likelihood of my being in this situation is somewhat limited!

I've never had a ONS either, but can only imagine this being a problem if I go to bed with a man only to find that he has a fanjo rather than a penis, get told "Yes, but I am a man in my head." and get called 'transphobic' for the privilege.

If he has a penis & can use it, I don't see an ethical problem. If things got that far, presumably I was attracted to him and had no inkling that he wasn't male anyway.

CoteDAzur well re If he has a penis & can use it, I don't see an ethical problem. If things got that far, presumably I was attracted to him and had no inkling that he wasn't male anyway. Of course this is your prerogative. And I recognise for both of us this hypothetical!

If I went to bed with a man, who had a penis and I thought was male, and was actually born female, and I never found out I would probably not be bothered. But then if I went to bed with a man who was married and I thought was single, and I never found out, I guess I would also not be bothered.

But if I went to bed with someone who I thought was male and I later found out was born female, I would be bothered. I doubt the person in question would be bothered, but I would. I don't think it is honest. I fully reorganise that sneaking into the conversation 'I was born a woman, or I was born a man' would be hard! I am actually really surprised that anyone would not be bothered about whether this was disclosed! I can understand people knowing and accepting or knowing and not being comfortable with it.

What about a lesbian who meets a trans women, would they be unreasonable for expecting to know if the person was a trans woman or a woman born a woman?

In terms of the programme itself, it's got quite a fairly negative reaction from trans people it seems: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/channel-4-genitalia-surgery-trans-people-girls-to-men?CMP=twt_gu
(Basing this on conversations I've had with trans people not just this article, although it raises the points nicely).

And here: www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/channel-4-documentary-girls-to-men-criticised-by-genderqueer-person-who-featured-in-episode-a6693866.html

In terms of ONS, if I fancied a person, we got into bed, then whoa big reveal they were actually a trans man... So long as they know what they are doing I honestly am not in the slightest bit bothered.

The problems become heavyweight when you bring procreation into the mix.
Is it transphobic to say well, we can't procreate.
It seems transactivists will have you thinking it is.

An "obsession" with genetalia imo is not misplaced when you consider the assumed function.

Squidzin re Is it transphobic to say well, we can't procreate. How is that possibly transphobic. That's like saying it's misogynistic to say a 90 year old woman can't procreate with her own eggs! It's just a fact. It doesn't mean you can't have a baby/child by adoption or fertility treatment with donor gamets, it's just a fact.

Re -
... I am fascinated to hear this as I would seriously be unhappy about this but you seem fine with it. I am assuring the person thought that you did know/did not know? Don;t answer if you don't want to!

VashtaNerada yes I saw the trans community were not happy with the documentary. I think they should get a camera and make a documentary they are happy with. I'd watch it, for sure, but it doesn't mean I'd agree with every word of it, just like the one the other night. maybe the question should be whether people are more sympathetic or understanding or generally kinder to trans people after watching this sort of documentary. If I were a part of a group treated badly in society (oh yes, I am, females!) then I would be pleased if a programme increased knowledge and understanding and awareness. I think that documentary did that. And it was about three trans men and so presumably although it will not tell all trans men's stories, it told three stories.

This trans man complained about our being told what would happen to one vagina in the programme! I think it is kind of necessary to know what is gong to happen, especially as testosterone can increase the chances of ovarian cancer! www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/channel-4-genitalia-surgery-trans-people-girls-to-men

If I were a young person thinking about life changing surgery, I would want all the facts, not to be screened from that by a lot of opinions. The series is called 'Born in the wrong body' so it's no surprise it looks at and deals with the body. Could you ask your trans friends what they would rather it had talked about? Please? Genuine question.

Yes, to some extent I agree with you. The programmes are clearly aimed at people who don't know much about trans and offered a sympathetic portrayal which may well have combatted transphobia in some viewers. So they're definitely not all bad.

The problem is that when you are knowledgable about trans you know there are typical faux-pas (there's definitely a better word than that!!) which often come up and are often linked to transphobia. A comparison might be saying "coloured" instead of "black" or saying "but men can be victims too" when discussing the problems with male violence in relation to domestic abuse. For someone outside the group they may sound like small things but for someone on the inside it can make you rage because you feel you spend your whole time dealing with this shit and not actually talking about the real issues. It actually wouldn't have taken many changes on the programme-maker's part to satisfy both the needs of viewers new to trans and those who are trans, if they'd bothered to do just a tiny bit more research. The things I'm thinking about are:

• saying "born a girl" as opposed to "assigned female at birth"
• showing 'before' photos A LOT when this is something most trans ppl IME would find upsetting (I'm sure they had permission but it made me feel worried for the young ppl anyway!)
• focusing too much on the physical changes and not enough about what's going on emotionally
• not referring non-binary ppl (who don't identify as either male or female)

Oh, and the title of course. I don't know any transmen who would describe their experience as going from a girl to a man. They're much more likely to say they were always male but had physical characteristics that led them to being assigned female at birth. It's like the first thing you learn when talking to trans ppl!

I don't mind talking about it!

I identified as bisexual in my youth, and met him through one of my former girlfriends. There was obvious chemistry between us because we were getting erm, intimate, at one of their house parties. One of the housemates told me not in a "hush hush" way at all. But indeed, he had not told me directly. We had a breif fling and the trans subject came up as "I am a man and always have been". But he didn't want to progress very far in terms of intimacy anyway iykwim.

(I suppose I am still "bisexual" but that all seems a bit irrelevant when your a mum!).

I have designed and made clothes for a couple of trans women. When I speak to them, I get a very strong sense of difficulty in coming to terms with their physical self.

I haven't watched this programme, but I am under the impression (maybe it was on the other programme) that trans men sometimes had their genitalia altered so that they had tissue from elsewhere on their body combined with some kind of internal prosthetic that they could control to make it sometimes capable of penetration. In some cases there may also be ejaculation of some substance?

I don't know what any of the specific risks of penetration by such an item are. I have never received any kind of sex education or health advice about it. Penetrating a women with something that is not a penis while leading her to believe it is is a serious sexual assault.

Or am I missing something here?

I h

They took flesh from their abdomen. and created a Penis. one of the men featured was to go jack and hage a pump fitted that would allow for him to have sex.

however I'm assuming similar pumps have been fitted fir men suffering from impotence. there are other reasons where a Penis may be made up at least partly from skin or flesh elsewhere, maybe on someone who was badly burned or who damaged themselves in an accident or had an amputation or reconstruction due to infection or cancer.

again All.private information that is not owed in the context of a one night stand. would you say someone who had had a reconstruction of some kind or a pump fitted and had sex with someone, had in fact assulted them?

I haven't seen the programme but read this story recently. There seems to be no other reason for saying the child is a girl beyond it being interested in things that the parents perceive as feminine. Joe likes pink fairy magazines so Joe is a girl.

I don't think it's an assault. Sex doesn't have to be just vaginal penetration by a penis. I don't think not telling your partner you are transgender is a good strategy or one likely to work though.
I didn't watch this one as got too annoyed with the last one. I hope they discussed orgasms though. Clitorises can be difficult things to get orgasming (compared to real penises) without operating on them.
I still don't really get why looking like someone of the opposite gender to the gender you are (in genes and genitalia) is such a big deal though. I never think of myself as having a female or male brain just my brain and don't understand the polarisation that feeling you are in the "wrong" body entails.
Therapy to help you come to terms with the body you actually have and looking at ways of expressing your ambitions and desires with your existing body rather than trying to change it in to what you want it to be seems very underutilised and disparaged by people with gender dysphoria.

Pams - we talked about this upthread. My take is that the media presents a very simplistic version, in reality there's much more going on than boys who like dolls or girls who like football.

2rebecca - I think we should let adults make their own choices. I don't understand why someone might have this type of surgery but I respect their right to. It's bloody hard to jump through all the hoops to get it too, nobody does it on a whim.

Thanks Vashta. I have read the thread.

I think our society's obsession with strict gender roles is creating a problem. I completely believe a person can have dysphoric feelings about their sex and I believe in trans people. However, when I read an article or a blog where the parents say 'I knew little Johhny was a girl when he was 1 year old and would only wear pink and didn't like getting dirty', I feel pretty damn angry that this reasoning goes unquestioned.

I've read accounts from men who 'always knew' they were a woman because they never liked football or going to the pub. I find this really worrying. Why are we allowing sexist assumptions about men and women to have such a prominent place in the narrative? If there are other reasons (which I know there are but doubt that is true in some cases) then why are these not expressed?

Yes, I would consider it an assault. Consenting to one kind of sex is not consent to another kind of sex. There have been cases recently where people claiming to be male have inserted items other than a penis into women to avoid disclosing their sex and been convicted of assault.

People should have to declare it. My right to know what is being inserted into my body so that I can consent comes before someone else's right not to disclose.

I also think there should be much more education around these surgical modifications so that peopleare educated and not relying on a partner to be accurate about thedifferences when they disclose. Look at the number of times people claim the surgery done to trans women creates something the same as a vagina

I don't understand how a pump would be used for impotence im biological males. Can you explain that assumption?

An erect penis is similar to the internal parts of the clitoris - the erection is due to engorgement with blood. I don't see how you could control such a thing in men or women with a pump.

I have no idea on how that relates to taking a different body part, fashioning it into a phallic shape and putting a prosthetic inside it to create an erection.

When bio males have reconstructive genital surgery on genitals after accidents they can use internal erectile sections inside the reconstruction, so it does function as a penis.