Raping Asian girls worse than raping white girls because it 'harms their marriage prospects' :o

[OTheHugeManatee]

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A judge has just ruled that a man who raped Asian under-13s should receive a longer sentence, because the victims' families were now worried about their marriage prospects. In other words, damaging these girls' property value in the marriage 'market' actually counted in terms of assessing the damage done by raping them.

I think this is horrific. Not just because virginity should have no bearing on the value of a girl or woman, but also because implicitly it seems to support the notion that underlay the belief of the Rotherham rapists that white girls were 'trash' who could be abused freely because they were already devalued. Like it's OK to rape white girls because they have no trading value.

I get that feminism coexists quite uneasily with cultural diversity, and this is a very difficult area to navigate, but really feel like this needs a feminist response.

The judge did not say this sentence is a harsher sentence because this girls dad is upset that he can't marry her off anymore.

She gave a few reasons including that the girl was doing really well at school before this happened. If this was a white girl and the perpetrator caused her schooling to fall behind and change her character (as that's what they use to show change of character and impact) there wouldn't be a petition and no one would be upset that he got a longer then usual sentence.

I don't think that generally black victims of rape get much sympathy for rape tbh OhManatee. Someone on here said once about how getting a conviction for rape is all about how "clean" the victim is. If the victim is a WOC then that reduces the clean points before they are even on the stand due to institutional racism. So I find it a bit jarring to suggest that showing sympathy for someone's genuine cultural difficulties is somehow benefitting them and disadvantaging other victims.

However, I also find it jarring that this judgment was expressed in relation to how a man would view this poor girl. So I'm currently taking the splinters out of my arse!

And I don't think sexual assault necessarily carries a lower sentence than rape does it?

The judge was 10 types of wrong.

I don't generally play Victim Top Trumps, whether or not it's the race/sex/religion version of the game, because it's boring. And counter-productive.

But the idea that non-muslim females, whatever ethnicity they are, are somehow less of a problem to rape is clearly playing Top Trumps with the law - repulsive.

Almost as repulsive as people who say that white privilege means you can't complain that your feelings have been systematically undervalued in law.

(Incidentally, not all muslims are non-white, and most black people aren't muslim. Just saying.)

So if you're a black male teenager, being stabbed is ok - but raping muslim girls is off limits because they might fetch less for Daddy in the passport bidding wars. Who says we don't look after the UK's ethnic minorities?

I was livid when I read about this ruling. Utterly disgraceful.

Have signed the petition. Should you start a new thread to advertise it?

For my part, I am not sure that it's right to cite anything about marriage prospects but for the judge to hear about impact on schooling etc seems fair to take into account (without minimising a crime that happened to another girl who hadn't found her school life affected)

I see what you're saying here Yonic but I'm imagining a girl from a difficult background who perhaps may have been struggling at school anyway, perhaps she was struggling to have a good relationship with her family (if she has one) anyway, perhaps she has already got involved in a gang or drugs or whatever. Should her rape be viewed as less of a big deal than a girl with lots of prospects that are then damaged because of the affect of the rape? My heart says no.

I don't think the solution is to give a harsher sentence to the rapist of the second girl or you're falling into the trap of the worthy rape victim. The answer is to give an equally harsh sentence to all the child rapists I think.

"Who says we don't look after the UK's ethnic minorities?" WTAF??

I was being sarcastic, scallops.

Oh sorry . I misunderstood your last paragraph.

Isabelle, I think in that case there might be something about the vulnerability of the victim in the impact statement/assessment.

I see your point though.

Petition signed and shared on Facebook, this is horrific.

That is interesting slug.

Rape of course is a violent punishing sort of crime and he knew full well he would continue punishing her for years and years after.

The judge knew he was fully aware of what he was doing and sentenced him accordingly.

No worries scallops, useful reminder that irony, particularly the savage variety I was attempting in righteous rage, doesn't work onscreen. Yet.

Fauchelevant Yes, I frequently have to remind Mumsnetters that not all of us (BME) are Muslim.
I don't even know if they form the majority of BME, but mention race on MN and that's where the discussion goes. Maybe it's the Kipperati here.

The judgement said they also took into account the fact that the whole family was isolated and shamed by the community.
I find those attitudes shameful, frustrating, insulting.

I wish a lot of the imams could come together and ask people to support victims of rape and sexual abuse, to respect them.

imo, This judgement is very divisive; a leap backwards wrt race relations and women's rights

Yonic - I definitely agree with the impact on the victim being taken into account - but it must be judged individually, on a case by case basis, not with blanket rules that say X crime is worse for members of this ethnic group than that one.

I think signing a petition to downgrade this man's sentence is vile

I think you have spectacularly missed the point.

Indeed bigchoc moreso on the other thread it's "so this means white girls are trash."

I agree with the points and hate to do what seems like nitpicking on such a serious topic, but I think people are forgetting there's not just one mush of non-white people and white people. if it suggests white girls are trash, it also suggests black, east asian, non muslim south asian etc are also trash.

So I think it's less about racially condemning white girls and more about a judge playing into the age old bullshit that rape of women is worse for men and that womens worth is measured on their value to men, and that once again women's trauma, pain and emotions come last.

^ What fauchelevant said. This isn't about 'what about the poor white girls' but calling out the bullshit that says rape is worse because some menz are upset about someone being raped. Rape is fucking barbaric whoever it happens to, with no reference to how it affects people around the victim.

Otherwise, you will end up condoning a situation where a woman might be deemed to be less impacted by her rape because she's isolated, or from a chaotic background with limited social support, or from overseas with no friends/family around her, or whatever, and because the people around her aren't visibly impacted by her rape there's a judgement that she's somehow less affected than someone who is being shamed all round. Which is utter, utter bullshit

What was the actual wording in the judgement? The Guardian report said.

Asian victims of child sex crimes suffer more than white children and their attackers should accordingly be punished more severely, the court of appeal has ruled

Do I think there are cultures where men think white girls and women are trash? Yes. But they also think black girls and women are dirty trash. In fact in the West, the disposability and worthlessness and rapeability of black women "because they're sluts" still is not entirely dead.

This is about men, and men making the rape of women about men. It's women being shafted once again. Not just white women, not just muslim women but all women. If you think this means the rape of muslim women is being viewed as worse, therefore muslim women are being treated better I think you might have misread what's going on here. At no point are the feelings of the women being considered and that is VILE. Rape is about the VICTIMS and how it affects THEM. Not how fuckable they'll be now, god i want to cry/scream/vomit.

This attitude is the reason it took me four months to tell my boyfriend I was sexually assaulted. I assumed he'd value me less.

Asian victims of child sex crimes suffer more than white children and their attackers should accordingly be punished more severely, the court of appeal has ruled

How the hell do judges sitting on a court of appeal know that Asians suffer more than white children. Are they sitting inside their heads. How insufferably arrogant of these judges.

a lass I missed that, sorry. The point still stands though, but it's more directed to the vile court ruling

Yonic, well the point here was that the offender wasn't charged with rape.

"The offence of sexual activity with a child is normally charged where a victim is aged 13 to 15 and the child maintains that they agreed to the sexual activity. Where a victim is over 13, lack of consent would need to be proved to obtain a rape conviction. Where a victim over the age of 13 maintains they have consented to the sexual activity, a charge of rape is unlikely to be successfully prosecuted. However, due to the age of the child, the offence of sexual activity with a child can be charged and successfully prosecuted instead of rape. This is because there needs to be proof only that the offender engaged in the sexual activity, irrespective of whether the child maintains that they agreed to the activity.
"

So if the offender had said to the 13-year-old 'suck my dick', and she said 'ok', then he wouldn't be charged with rape, only 'sexual activity with a child'. And it's a lesser offence. But you are right in the sense that oral sex falls into the same category as vaginal sex in the context of that offence.