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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ms, Mrs,Miss

520 replies

LookAtMeGo · 05/08/2015 22:05

Apologies in advance, as I'm sure it has been done to death. But today I realised the truth of why I refer to myself as Mrs even though I'm divorced. My mum is divorced and told me as a child in response to me asking why she is still Mrs that it is so nobody judges her and she looks respectable (not her actual words, but that's what I got from the convo at the age of about ten)

Even as a highly educated professional, I still wanted to hold on to the title post-divorce and I feel pretty... I don't know... angry? Upset? Ashamed? I really don't know. All I know is I don't feel good, and I shall be Ms from now on.

Any thoughts? Is there something else I should be doing?

OP posts:
YonicScrewdriver · 11/08/2015 08:37

...for birthday cards.

SylvanianCaracal · 11/08/2015 08:39

Original, I have that phone thing a lot.

"Hello, Mrs DP'sName?"

"There's no Mrs DP'sName here"

"Oh... erm... okaaaaay erm bye"

Not only do I find it amazing that companies who stand to make money from you haven't thought to ask a woman who she is or what she'd like to be called, I'm also amazed that they're so unimaginative they don't realise that it might be the woman herself who has the phone account, or that if it's the man, the woman who picks up the phone might not be his wife - she could be his DP, sister, daughter, mother, lodger, cleaner etc etc etc. But no let's just assume if there's a phone number listed under X, the woman who picks up must be Mrs X. Gahhhhh!

Sometimes I do get as far as having a chat with them where they wonder who I could possibly be and I explain that I am in fact Ms Myname. They're always totally befuddled. But there are loads of unmarried couples in the UK. It's bizarre.

Mehitabel6 · 11/08/2015 08:42

Just because the bank is outdated and puts Miss on a passbook doesn't mean you have to accept it. If they had put Master on my DSs I would have got them to move it. They didn't. I think people make huge problems where they don't exist.
Children do not need titles.

SylvanianCaracal · 11/08/2015 08:42

Let's also not forget that there are a number of people who don't want to be called male or female. (And I am now starting to see a few forms where you can be male, female or "other" or "prefer not to say".) Why is it actually essential for the bank or anyone else to know your gender? I like being Ms, but actually if we were all called by just our names it would also be fine. So you can't tell Mr Alex Smith from Ms Alex Smith, so what? There are probably multiple Alex Smiths anyway, you tell them apart by their address and account number.

Mehitabel6 · 11/08/2015 08:45

It's not bizarre on the phone. If they can't get your name right they are largely selling you something you don't want. If they pronounce my surname wrongly, very common, I just say 'no one of that name here' and put the phone down. It isn't anyone I need to speak to.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 11/08/2015 08:45

No, children can probably get by without titles. But I don't really see why abolishing them is more important than dealing with women regularly being told their marital status is relevant when it isn't, or how it would help.

Mehitabel6 · 11/08/2015 08:46

No need for the banks to use a title on letters or accounts for adults either. Elizabeth Smith would be fine.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 11/08/2015 08:49

Again, true enough, but thinking of times we use titles when we don't need to doesn't help with the fact that there are times when they are used, and used in a problematic way for women.

SylvanianCaracal · 11/08/2015 09:10

Totally original and I love Ms and feel strongly about it politically.

YonicScrewdriver · 11/08/2015 09:34

Plenty of people like titles and find them polite Mehitabel. You think Ms is dreadful, others feel just as strongly.

Mehitabel6 · 11/08/2015 09:50

Exactly- we should all be free to choose.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 11/08/2015 09:56

Absolutely - and I'll be happy with that 'choice' just as soon as men get the same 'choice', rather than having to be stuck in the invidious position in which society doesn't really seem to find it important to determine whether they're married or not before they're allowed to drop off their dry cleaning. Since it's so great that as a woman, I'm assumed to be the married wife of Mr DP and to have taken his surname, and that being over 30 the only 'polite' thing to do is to assume that I must be a Mrs, that it's only fair that men should be accorded the same level of respect.

If they have children, they're Mr, and usually Mr Whatever-their-female-partner-is-called. If they're under 30, it's polite to call them Master, to imply, flatteringly, that you assume they're still sexually available. And if they're one of those pesky uppity difficult men who consider that their marital status isn't any of your business, then we can call them MURRRR, but object to how difficult and ugly that is to pronounce, and ask them why they're not proud to be a happy hubby.

Nolim · 11/08/2015 10:30

I choose to be indiferent to other ppl marital status unless i have a reason not to be. And i cannot think of a situation when it is relevant to mention "oh you are married/single"(except for congratulations etc) so why bring it up every time you contact that person?

ChunkyPickle · 11/08/2015 10:35

I'm pretty sure that DSes are Master on communications from the NHS (for jabs and such).

Of course, in day to day usage I wouldn't put Master or Miss on something for a child, but if I was doing something formal I would. And, thinking about it, once they were past about 16-18 I would switch to Mr and Ms, unless they were married and used Mrs.

By all means do away with all titles though. I just think that as long as we have them, I'd like them to be a bit more equal.

Oh, and for Yonic, I would say 'excuse me, I think you've dropped X' to pretty much anyone.

Guitargirl · 11/08/2015 10:41

I was awarded a doctorate early this year and I have started using Dr when specifically asked for a title although I feel a bit self-conscious about it.

Last week I was taking the DCs out for a special tea in a posh hotel which had asked for my title when I made the booking online. I did enjoy the confused look on the receptionist's face when I turned up with DCs and she greeted me with 'welcome...um, , um...welcome...um...anyway...come in> Grin

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 11/08/2015 11:02

We aren't really free to choose though, because it seems as though whatever choice we make, some people will judge us for it. Which simply doesn't happen to men. Nor do they have to specify a title, correct people or go through the "is that Miss or Mrs?" thing that happens when you give out your name. If all adult women used one title as a default it would make life a little bit easier for all of us.

As for getting rid of titles altogether, well that is one solution, but I don't see it happening any time soon, I rarely use mine, but there are occasions when I prefer a bit of formality, I wouldn't like to see them disappear completely.

grimbletart · 11/08/2015 11:36

BeaufortBelle: only just picked up your post. I wasn't ignoring you, honest Smile

OK - totally accept you are proud to be married. I love being married so much it will be our golden wedding anniversary next year.

I have one question though. If, as you say, your husband is equally proud of you, why does he not have a title that declares to the world he is married?

I became Mrs but I have always thought: a) it is no random's business whether I am married or not and b) why do men not have to declare to all land sundry that they are married?

Why the double standard?

A rhetorical question really as we all know why the double standard exists. Grin

BeaufortBelle · 11/08/2015 12:29

Because there isn't a title for married men. I just accept it. Perhaps it would be better if there were. He does wear a wedding ring though. It's something that doesn't bother me but I have never liked Ms and have never wanted to use it.

If your husband were to receive a knighthood would being Lady his name bother you? If you became a Dame you would precede your dh on paper and in announcement but he would not become Sir Grimble because of it. He would remain Mr. So an inequality in reverse. Would you refuse the honour because of it?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 11/08/2015 12:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SenecaFalls · 11/08/2015 12:38

For those of you who saying that you say Mzz (as opposed to Miz, I assume), what does that sound like? Doesn't there have to be a vowel sound in there?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 11/08/2015 12:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TremoloGreen · 11/08/2015 12:44

The UK button here is closest I've found.

Really, I pronounce it like it has 'half a u' between M and z. THere's no buzzing - it's a short z. I don't have a regional accent.

herethereandeverywhere · 11/08/2015 12:44

Mzz. If you want a vowel it's a very quick 'u' but definitely not 'Muzz' - purposely try to not say a vowel and you have the sound.

My standard line is: "It's Mzz, M S" (and state the 2 letter names)

TremoloGreen · 11/08/2015 12:46

Went in to HSBC once.

Hi, I've had this account since I was 12 and it says 'Miss' as my title. Can you upgrade it to Ms or Dr so it matches my other accounts?*

You'll have to bring in your certificates if you want to be a Dr.

OK - I don't really care, just put Ms.

I can't do that. Ms is for divorced women Shock [anger]

Also, I'm actually married, so Miss is a bit misleading.

Stupour · 11/08/2015 12:50

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread but I feel so passionate about this.

When I was getting married so many people asked me 'Are you going to change your name?'.

My response was either 'No, I'm not on the run so why would I give myself a new name?'

Or 'No and DP isn't changing his either' which my mum was always very put out by Grin Grin

It just used to fuck me off so much that people would assume that I'd give myself a massive upheaval in my identity and cause myself loads of administrative work but no-one would ever even contemplate DH doing it. Tradition innit.

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