Taylor Swift vs Nicki Minaj

[MyChildDoesntNeedSleep]

Apologies if already discussed. I couldn't see a thread.

What are your thoughts on this debacle? I have always been a Taylor fan, but since reading limited newspaper articles went over to Minaj's side. But then I watched the bloody Anaconda video and I just thought ffs, wtaf?!

Women shaking their asses for the camera? Yes, pretty ass-felt, or whatever you said, stainless.

Achieve she's calling race because a white girl twerks (appropriating black female culture) and gets awarded, and then the black woman twerks (an expression of her own black identity) and gets no award.

And then Taylor Swift, with a practically all-white video, completely ignores the race issue and complains about Minaj being unfeminist?

Both videos are based on titillating men (don't pretend Swift's isn't, fighting in those ridiculous heels isn't for fun), at least Minaj's has some sort of cultural legitimacy.

I agree with swallowed.

Kelly Rowland has been successful, but she hasn't even been in the same league success wise as Beyonce, and you have to wonder why that is! Kelly's skin is darker, she keeps her hair dark, she generally doesn't writhe around the stage shaking her arse and she hasn't got a husband on the scale of Jay-Z.

Maybe Beyonce is marginally better talented voice wise, but they both came up in Destinys Child, both had the same public stage etc.

There is a game that must be played, and those who don't play it right don't get to the same lofty heights.

I haven't read too much about all this, but NMs "skinny girl" comment seems quite clearly directed at Taylor, if it was only her and Beyonce as the only females nominated. I take the point about Taylor's privilege that is made in an article linked up thread, but does that mean that "white girls" now have to accept these digs being made at them for fear of being accused of white feminism or racism if they speak back?

Kanye West jumped on stage during Taylors acceptance of this very award in 2009 in defence of Beyonce. His anger then was over the same idea as in the article linked above. White feminism and the down trodden black artists. While I don't deny that there is such a thing, I am unsure as to why Taylor is again the subject of this wrath. She can control her skin colour no more than Beyonce can. If there is an issue with the nominations, take it up with the nominating body, not the nominee's, instead of detracting from another artists success.

stainless I don't even know what your argument is. I love TS. I am skinny. I have no axe to grind. I think NM's video is gratuitous and she has no place playing the feminist black card. (By the way, I am feminist, female and black).

Beyonce is a more interesting public figure than Rowland.

And Taylor, while having no control over her skin colour, does have control over how she uses it. And she seems to be using her whiteness to promote her brand of feminism, while ignoring all other issues. Plus, Nicki's tweets - as I remember them - were directed at the nominating body, and Taylor misinterpreted them as targeting her.

Meh.

Both of the videos are gratuitous, male-fantasy wank-fodder.

Agree, kevin

cigars, bearing in mind I'm not white, how is TS using whiteness to promote her brand of feminism?

I have to be honest and say I'm often mystified by these sorts of conversations, probably because I don't really notice anyone's skin colour. I realise others do but sometimes I get a bit confused. I wonder if anyone thinks I have ever "used" my skin colour?!

I also think it's ridiculous to reference the skinny thing. I think it would have been more sensible for TS to just ignore it to be honest. It's even more baffling to me now I realise NM does in fact have a nomination.

I never come on the feminist board, so I'm pretty shocked at the attitudes I have encountered tonight. Wtf are the actual feminists?

Beyonce is a more interesting public figure than Rowland.

Why? What makes her so? Beyonce drives her public image and therefore the publics interest in her, just the same as Rowland does. I don't buy into the notion that there is somehow something organically interesting about either of them, or indeed anyone in a similar type of career. We see a very carefully constructed persona, that is nothing close to the person behind the fame.

Taylor interpreted them how she interpreted them. Only NM truly knows how they were really intended before it all kicked off. I admit that Taylors readiness to cry feminism did overshadow the race issue that Nicky was bringing up.

I'm thinking NM having a nomination is more of an affront to feminism than anything!

Said as a gorgeous, thin black female

I take NM's side on this one. (I'd prefer to listen to TS's song though, I must admit.)

There is a long history in the U.S. of mocking and demeaning black women for their bodies. Good for NM for pointing out that skinny white women with pancake asses are not the only sexy, desirable and appreciated body type. She is defiantly pointing out that her large bum is not something she is ashamed of, but proud of. And, in fact, it makes her highly desirable. There is a sample from a movie of a young white woman with a "valley girl," accent saying snidely to a friend:"look at her butt!" NM response is: yea, look at it, it's awesome.

So for all that, I think she should have been nominated. And frankly, the music business has form for overlooking black artists and minimising their achievements. So good for NM for kicking back. Why should she take it?

Meanwhile, TS looks a little narcissistic for jumping in and assuming it's all about her. Then made even worse for condescendingly offering to share the stage with NM if she wins.

WRT Beyonce and Kelly Rowland...whilst not dispusting that BK's appearance may have had some influence wasn't it also the case that her father was Destiny's Child's manager? I'm sure that didn't hurt, either.

sliceofsoup "I admit that Taylors readiness to cry feminism did overshadow the race issue that Nicky was bringing up."

do you mean her comment "Maybe one of the men took your slot"?

isn't that just logical given that both TS and NM were nominated in the female category and NM wasn't - therefore, the longlist for that award had men in it and maybe one of them got the slot on the shortlist? I didn't think it was crying feminism, I thought it was just straightforward logic.

*sorry, NM wasn't nominated in the Best video category.

I admit the asses in the Anaconda video are AWESOME. But it is an undeniably sexually gratuitous video. That's all I'm complaining about. You can't say it's an ode to fat women, because it's not. It's an ode to shapely women. Most women with asses that big would be wobbly and cellulitely.

I wonder how many men are having this conversation. Haha.... none!

No achieve, Taylor made a comment about pitting women against each other, hold on I will double check.

Taylor wrote "Its not like you to pit women against each other".

Child, your "where are the feminists" comment is pretty uncalled for. It's not a Hive Mind, for heaven's sake. We're allowed to disagree.

I think there was a typo, so I didn't understand.