Length of school skirts

[KingTut]

I and my teen daughters are new to feminism and I wondered if I could talk through something?

My daughter refuses to wear a skirt as she can't stand all the length monitoring by staff at school. Dd said she would rather sweat in trousers. Then dd made the interesting comment, it's like they are blaming the girls for the boys not being able to cope if a skirt is above a knee.

It then brought us to the attitude of the Duggar family. The school are not much different really. So why do parents, staff and students say nothing about this skirt length issue? Is there something we are missing?

Tbtc- yes I was bothered by her not caring about her skirt being so short. She has longer skirts and shorts pants to wear for school. I'm sure she rolls up her skirt.

That's why I said it should be no underwear on show for everybody.

Aw thanks Chunky

If parents don't like the uniform they have the power to change it, as do the pupils - it's one of the things that is frequently surveyed in Pupil Voice and PTA feedback etc. although of course a lot if parents resist a uniform change as it means buying new stuff - but the school HAS to be seen to be listening to pupils and parents on this sort of thing. So if you're really bothered get a load of parents/pupils to say the same thing ...

I know! Boiler suits for all!

Sorry just caught up with the thread and seen the masturbating students weren't just poor girls with thrush (but that is a more common problem I'd have thought).

Almond - no the pupils don't see us as perverts - I can assure you. The 'ruler' people, as previously explained, are pastoral managers and have a completely different relationship with the pupils than teachers. It is a school joke in a good way.
Spirited if you read my comments you will find that I followed safeguarding rules and reported the cases - there is a difference between am itch from thrush and what I saw (it is a teacher's worst nightmare).
To the poster who said about uniforms being like suits - our uniform used to be much more causal (jumpers and no ties) but were Selected by the school council who chose blazers, flared skirts, trousers, shirts and ties. Have to say that behaviour has improved too. I am strict on uniform as that is what I am required to do ...

Spirited cross post- yes quite common but girls these days are quite vocal about it?!

Our school had a "problem" with customised ties a few years back - the knots were just getting fatter and fatter so there was only an inch if actual tie hanging... IYSWIM? We ended up having to count stripes to make sure enough tie was hanging down, and it was altered as soon as they walked away anyway.

But the kids were so busy trying to catch us out with the ties, they stopped bothering all sorts of other boundary pushing - behaviour was brilliant for nearly a whole year! The teaching staff thought it was hilarious in a sweet kind of way

We had the fat ties too - the rule became 6 stripes on show! No problem now the fashion is small knot and long tie

I'm now wondering if you teach at my d school purple!

Old

Maybe! Depends how old you are ....

I don't mean how old you are! I meant how long ago you worked there. Brain dead

40s....?

Lol! Didn't go back after dd2 was born 19 months ago. Because I kind of like seeing my children occasionally in term time...

For whoever asked me further back... dd's trousers are apparently too tight. They are slim fit. Not skinny, but not baggy either. Dd is size 4 so not exactly bursting out of them with buxomness

There's no way I can replace them by Monday. Pretty much everything dd owns has to be ordered online as a size 4 really isn't common. A size 4 with a leg length of 33"? Hen's teeth.

When she started at this school we bought looser trousers than she'd worn before. We also bought skirts. Same problem applies - a skirt with a small enough waistband for it not to fall down is short. I accept this. But at her school if you wear a skirt you have to wear very opaque tights so no flesh or pants on display whatsoever.

Tbh I'm fed up with it. She is properly attired but they're not happy. She got pulled out of line in the winter and told off for wearing a pair of low cut ankle socks under her tights ffs. She is (a you will imagine at a tall size 4) not overly blessed with natural padding and feels the cold. But apparently a small bump around her ankle bone was a violation of the uniform code.

I'm not trying to be unreasonable, I'm really not. I think uniforms are actually a really good thing. But perhaps there needs to be a bit of leeway on occasion? I'll be writing to the school tonight and telling them where they can stick their sanction as I've done my bloody best. I've tried but it's not good enough. If they want to spend hours trawling the Web looking for what they consider to be acceptable then that's ok with me.

Oh and before anyone says anything, I am a very supportive parent and dd is a A*/A/B kind of student. She has no problem wearing a uniform to work and is fine about complying with the uniform at school.

And the difference between uni/college and school. They are under teachers loco parentis at school. At college/uni they are adults and so free to make their own wardrobe successes and failures.....

Most college students are 16 - 18, but a child can attend college full time from age 14 and there are also students who are adults.

TisILeclerc

Challenge the school to find something they consider suitable.

I'd also (because I'm like that) ask for a freedom of information act disclosure of total uniform violations for tight trousers broken down by sex.

That does sound a bit ridiculous with the trousers. Is there any reason why you can add a bit of elastic to the waistband of what they consider to be suitable? Or just campaign to have the uniform changed?

A freedom of information act request? Are you serious? Because schools aren't under enough pressure as it is without adding more hours of useless admin. If you don't like the uniform then change it! You have tacitly accepted the uniform rules by sending your child there and then doing nothing to change the rules.

And the socks thing is totally ridiculous.

I think, on reflection, that life would be better and fairer if things were just simplified. A list of parts of the body/clothing to be covered (same for boys and girls) and some guidance on what should be used to do this - black trousers or skirt (choice of which being left to the individual), white shirt etc etc.

And then leave it and get on with the task of educating them.

Tis, that really is an impossible situation - I can totally understand your nightmare trying to find trousers (prays DS doesn't get any taller or skinner because I'm already having a similar problem with him at primary - funnily enough, he stops fitting in the bum, then the legs, then the waist, so perhaps bum checks are in order for him too!). If only waist adjusters were available all the way up to adult.

We all did the tie thing didn't we? Fat ties one year, wearing it the wrong way round so it was super-skinny the next, then it'd be tucking it in so only the knot showed.. Ties are probably more trouble than they're worth thinking about it, and I had to wear one from primary up!

Barbarian hear hear! Uniform checks and rule enforcement are a complete waste of teacher time

IMO, school uniform needs to be practical - that's the most important thing. After that, I think it's not unreasonable to ask for the sort of smart attire that would be suitable for an office - though I question the need for a tie (for either gender) - I am not sure that having something that means you must have your collar done up to the top button is comfortable all the time - and a modicum of comfort makes working easier. I accept offices may well insist on ties (though why putting something like a noose round your employees necks makes them work better, I don't know), but at school level, is it really vital?

Speaking personally, I really don't like trousers on me - I never did. I see nothing wrong with giving girls the choice to wear skirts, but asking that, if they choose a skirt, it is of a smart length and looks professional.

I think the biggest issue isn't what length someone's skirt is or what is left available for the rest of the class to see but rather the way the issue is handled.
Taking a girl out of class to tell her off because her inappropriate skirt length is distracting boys is just interrupting her education and fundamentally telling her that boys education is more important than hers.

Not sure I agree walkingwellies I think that the principle that it is the pupil causing the distraction (in whatever form) that is removed from class is a fair one.

Having said that, it would have to be an amazingly short skirt and an unusual seating arrangement, or quite an active lesson, to reasonably distract anyone. So much so that it makes me question the reasoning and wonder if the reprimand couldn't wait until the end of the lesson.

On the other hand, if the rule is 'no underwear visable' then it's no worse to send them out for this than for chewing gum or plugging in an IPod.

Oh, I don't know, really. But it would have to be a hell of a short skirt to cause a problem.

A freedom of information act request? Are you serious? Because schools aren't under enough pressure as it is without adding more hours of useless admin.

It shouldn't take hours because they should be actively recording things like this to ensure there is no unintentional discrimination. Pulling the information out of their monitoring should take mins.