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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Length of school skirts

181 replies

KingTut · 03/06/2015 08:24

I and my teen daughters are new to feminism and I wondered if I could talk through something?

My daughter refuses to wear a skirt as she can't stand all the length monitoring by staff at school. Dd said she would rather sweat in trousers. Then dd made the interesting comment, it's like they are blaming the girls for the boys not being able to cope if a skirt is above a knee.

It then brought us to the attitude of the Duggar family. The school are not much different really. So why do parents, staff and students say nothing about this skirt length issue? Is there something we are missing?

OP posts:
mrstweefromtweesville · 03/06/2015 13:08

Sorry, disagree with the premise of the opening post.

Taught for over 20 years. Girls sit at their desks with their legs wide open and, if in a short skirt, everything on display. There was a trend for wearing shorts in fluorescent colours under mini skirts - that was even worse.

Now you want them to be braless, too? Sorry, you just aren't thinking clearly.

Schools need to be as near as possible to sex-free. We've got work to do. We don't want to see your knickers, or worse, your intimate parts, and we don't want to see your breasts waving in the breeze.

Its not anti-feminist to expect people to keep their bodies under wraps.

BringBackCabinPressure · 03/06/2015 13:09

As an ex secondary school teacher it was a real PITA to have to keep telling girls to unroll and pull their skirts down so I couldn't see their knickers, AND telling boys to pull up their trousers, so I couldn't see their boxers. (They would have the trousers hanging around the top of thighs look) And the ensuing merriment when tired when you accidentally tell a girl to pull their skirt up, or a bit to pull their trousers down - because you've said it too many times that day on zero sleep. At least if the skirts were a decent length to start with it looked bloody stupid to roll them up enough to expose knickers - so was less likely to happen.
Both sexes should wear trousers/shorts/culottes in my not-asked-for opinion.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 03/06/2015 13:12

What an appalling post.

Teachers should not be looking at the bodies of the children they teach in that way.

Breasts waving in the breeze wtf? Absolutely it should be up to the child whether they wear a bra or not. Christ almighty.

And you know what, the boys will look, make comments, and maybe try to cop a feel whether they have a bra on or not.

That post comes across absolutely atrociously.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 03/06/2015 13:13

That was to mrstwee.

Original poster
KingTut · 03/06/2015 13:20

Where did I say Girls should not wear a bra? Hmm

OP posts:
Original poster
KingTut · 03/06/2015 13:23

The girls were taken from their learning environment because they didn't realise it was going to be warm that day and were not wearing a white bra.

OP posts:
BarbarianMum · 03/06/2015 13:25

I don't think anyone -male or female - should dress in a way that shows their arse, genitals or knickers/pants. Beyond that I don't care but it makes me uncomfortable to see someone's crotch, unless they are in swimwear. It's not a position that I can fully defend (if swimwear is OK why does underwear bother me) but nontheless it does make me deeply uncomfortable. Luckily I mostly encounter teenagers through work and as I work outdoors brambles, nettles and the cold encourage expansive clothing.

BarbarianMum · 03/06/2015 13:29

Oh, and to clarify, I don't include prepubescent children in the above. What they wear/don't wear doesn't bother me a bit.

BringBackCabinPressure · 03/06/2015 13:29

In my entire teaching career I have never policed, or been asked to police, the wearing of bras or otherwise. Sometimes (often boys) are asked to remove offensive t shirts that show through from under their school shirts, but never bras.
I really do think it is not appropriate to routinely show your boxers/knickers over about the age of 10 however. And I'm not just talking about when they bend over or not sitting proper - but when walking down the corridor as the skirts are rolled that high, or trousers that low. But it's not uniquely a female issue as I say.

almondcakes · 03/06/2015 13:33

At DD's school they do checks on the girls' trousers. They have to turn around and hold their jumper up so that the pastoral head can check they are not too tight across the bum.

So I don't think girls wearing trousers is going to stop the scrutiny of their bodies and attire by adults.

BringBackCabinPressure · 03/06/2015 13:39

That's pretty unusual. I've never been asked to inspect girls trousers.

I've been asked to sew up quite a few however by upset form tutees! Grin Sometimes they do put on a growth spurt and it takes everyone by surprise until they bend over and the trousers rip - maybe it's to stop that? I have wasted many lunch times hastily tacking trouser seats back together - and im crap at sewing! (Science teacher...)

tbtc · 03/06/2015 13:42

OP, you say "it's like they are blaming the girls for the boys not being able to cope if a skirt is above a knee."

Is this what the uniform guidelines state - that short skirts are distracting to boys? If not, then it is an assumption and not fair on the boys.

If it is simply a matter of being dressed in the manner appropriate to a school ie knickers not showing, then I fully support the school.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 03/06/2015 13:44

Do they check the boys arses in their trousers like that as well almond? Or is it a girls school.

I have worked with some men who wore startlingly tight trousers, and of course at school growth spurts can make trousers snug. It does seem to be female bodies though that cause alarm and despondency. Boy in snug trousers = growth spurt, girl in tight trousers = sexually provocative.

Depressing.

BringBackCabinPressure · 03/06/2015 13:46

Hmm I've never had to repair boys trousers. Maybe they are made better, or maybe it's just because they tend to be a looser fit to start with? Or maybe I've just never been asked!

mrstweefromtweesville · 03/06/2015 13:50

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 Teachers should not be looking at the bodies of the children they teach in that way

They aren't 'looking'. They're trying to avoid seeing. That's the difference and its why, if pupils are properly covered, there's nothing to avoid and we can all get on with our work without having to address wardrobe issues.

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 03/06/2015 13:50

Men's clothes are generally better made than women's IME for the same price range, and maybe boys there is the "rough and tumble" aspect as well. Like with girls shoes which are often much more fragile than boys ones.

Could be to do with cut as well. Like I say, I have known men who wore very tight trousers, so it's not unheard of! And I did know a bloke who split his trousers playing pool (hahahahahhahahahahahahaha).

HSMMaCM · 03/06/2015 13:50

They just need to say 'no underwear on display' for both girls and boys don't they? DD wears a short skirt and following her upstairs, I pointed out I could see her knickers and she just said "so?".

Could a male teacher be accused of looking at her bottom when following her up the stairs?

I remember at primary school about 100 years ago having a lesson on how to sit in assembly, so the headmaster wasn't greeted by an array of pants.

almondcakes · 03/06/2015 13:53

Whirlpool, I don't know. DD's friend told me she was uncomfortable about having to do it, but I don't know if it is boys too.

DD wears a skirt instead to avoid the arse inspection.

BringBackCabinPressure · 03/06/2015 13:56

And if it's not the bloody skirts or trousers, it's the customised tie or top button...
Bloody hate hate having to enforce school uniform. Do like not having to see underwear though

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 03/06/2015 13:56

mrstwee your wording was very unfortunate, to say the least.

"Schools need to be as near as possible to sex-free. We've got work to do. We don't want to see your knickers, or worse, your intimate parts, and we don't want to see your breasts waving in the breeze. "

The idea that girls are bringing sex into schools is just grim. The expression "breasts flapping in the breeze" sounds really off. Many females don't have large breasts, especially developing schoolgirls. To describe a part of women in such a nasty way, I just really didn't like the way you worded that at all, it all sounds horrible.

Girls sitting at their desks with their legs spread so you can see their vulvas what on earth. But shorts are no good either apparently. Just grim reading.

Fleecyleesy · 03/06/2015 14:02

Hmmmmmmm personally I don't want to see anyone flashing the flesh (or underwear) at school. Male or female. Don't want to see boys boxers when they wear their trousers under their arses, don't want to see open shirts exposing the chests of either gender, don't want to see girls in pants flashing skirts. Doing any of the above in a serious professional job would impact on your career - which is what school is preparing you for (or trying to anyway).

Also. Teenagers of both genders are full of hormones. It isn't really a gender issue anyway. What about gay teenagers?

almondcakes · 03/06/2015 14:06

School is not a serious professional job; it is education. University students manage to become educated while wearing all sorts of things.

almondcakes · 03/06/2015 14:08

DD's friend in the trousers is gay. How does that make it not a gender issue, Fleecy?

Original poster
KingTut · 03/06/2015 14:11

How about smart dress to prepare for professional dress, in the last year/term at school?

OP posts:
BringBackCabinPressure · 03/06/2015 14:13

Because the worst offenders tend to be year 8-10 girls, and year 9-11 boys. Then the exposing underwear tends to die out. They become more aware.