Feminist pub XIX: The Bluestocking meanders into May

[YonicScrewdriver]

We're running at about six weeks per pub at the moment! So if you want chat with a feminist flavour, or with fellow feminists, or just want to admire our patriarchy blaster cannon and goat - welcome!

Last pub Here

I don't think anyone should try to cut the mustard. Leave the mustard alone. Mustard has feelings too.

Cutting mustard is pointless, it'd just ooze back together wouldn't it?

Staggers in.<

Argh, pour me a stiff one. I've just written 5,000 words of my thesis in the last two days and then decided it was sensible to get into an argument about sodding gendered lego on AIBU. Double single malt (something peaty) please landlord!

Surely it depends at which point you cut the mustard? As a plant, as a load of dried seeds, as powder, or as an oozy condiment?

(What was this about, anyway?)

Hmmm - I've just reached the point where I think I might be classified as a TERF.

I only started posting in the pub about a year ago, and would have considered myself a fairly liberal feminist. I think I might have been radicalised .

(In harmony) They got the mustard out! jazz hands

EBearhug

I think it's about whether or not it's correct to distinguish between cis women and trans women (apples and oranges... not certain the mustard has any metaphorical power here, though happy to be corrected!)

Also thanks Yonic.

No, I don't think mustard has anything to do with anything. Sorry for derail.

This "cis" and "trans" business does my head in. But I don't know enough and have not thought enough to contribute anything useful.

If you think about it enough you just end up flailing and wailing at the sheer batshittery. Not thinking about it enough is probably preferable, from the sanity perspective.

The confusion of gender and sex annoys the hell out of me. So I avoid it ...

Yes HoVis that was where I was trying to go with the analogy.

I think I'm getting to TERF status as well. Because I'm so cross about the cis/trans bollocks conflating definition and discrimination. Apparently it's ok to force biological women to accept things that make them very uncomfortable though

sigh.

I find the use of the term 'cis' outside of stereochemistry a bit odd. Doesn't map well as the converse of trans in other contexts.

I've read the definitions, and I know I'm not CIS, neither am I trans, I'm just 'Woman' dunno what the extremists would think of that.

I think it's like Buffy has said before - we all feel compassion and have no problem with individuals, whatever it is that they are going through or need.

But on a political, societal, large group level, we need to be very careful about what we support and officially allow or things can go to hell in a handbasket very easily.

On another note entirely, never let your DP persuade you to buy the multi-pack of chocolate brownie mix from Costco 'for the kids' - especially when your DP doesn't eat chocolate, and your kids aren't that fussed about brownies. All that happens is you end up eating the lot and sitting on the settee groaning about how you'll never do that again (then doing it again yesterday, because I never learn)

The "which bathroom to use" scenario always puts me in mind of a horror film. The bit where most of the good guys have made it to a place of safety, they need to close the door to stop the big bad coming in, but someone's a bit too slow, and didn't make it before the door closed. And if we open the door to let that person in, the monsters will get in too.

In my head I'm just me. Is that bad? I do a lot of things that are typically done by men, and I do a lot of things that are typically done by women. But I have given birth to two children, so that puts me firmly in the "woman" category. But I am absolutely INFURIATED when people treat me as a stereotype. It makes me angry beyond measure (I know I know, calm down dear and all that). That "as a mother" I am like this or that. "As a woman" I am like this or that. "As a person from this cultural background" I am like this or that. Luckily most people are suitably disconcerted when you tell them to fuck off to the far side of fuck and when they get there fuck off some more.

'I'm just me'

Amen to that. Though otoh it may be one of the reasons for some people not getting feminism.

YY errol. But I get feminism precisely because of people NOT seeing that I am just me. I guess you need to be able to see how you are treated?

I like Horror film explanation.

Dd was doing her homework the other night and asked if girls are allowed to do Karate, her homework had a section on karate and used male pronouns as a default when talking about a mixed group. Dd assumed that the girls couldn't do it, and were there to watch. So I'd explained to her that yes girls can do karate, and explained that on her text sheet, they had used "he" dd was annoyed and went back through her answers and changed all the male pronouns to their and them. She did want to use female pronouns but worried she'd get in trouble. Part of me is worried that she might get in trouble, but I'm also very proud of her. I stuck a note in explaining why dd had changed her words.

Yes. I didn't get it for a while because I was lucky enough to be treated fine. I'm sure there's plenty I still don't get because I'm a privileged person but hopefully I can recognise that's my shortcoming.

Off tangent, but I've just had an "aha"moment. I have mumsnet set up show 100 posts per page appear, for quickness I'd tap "flip this thread" rather than scroll all the way down, but then if I wanted to post, I'd scroll all the way down to the text box.

I've only just discovered, by accident, the " add message" on every post in the thread brings up the reply box!

Good for you and your DD, Inicked. She certainly shouldn't get in trouble for that. It's not her fault we don't have a gender neutral third person singular. Not quite as bad as French!

I bloody-mindedly use they or even she/he if I have to. Enough male by default.

Errol I have also been treated well. Even so, not as well as some male colleagues. Which I never saw before. It makes me angry because I feel that I've been duped and they are all laughing at me behind my back. I know they don't but it makes me feel like that.