'Sussex Police is taking an innovative approach' to their new Rape awareness campaign

[DuelingFanjo]

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Innovative my arse.
Their Twitter response has been "we are not blaming victins! We can reduce number of victims in many ways. Friends can play a key role"

I would like to know which activities do they consider to be vulnerable and risky? Maybe just being a woman? Going out? Drinking?

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

"But how do you tell the difference between sensible self care and victim blaming advice? "

I think you have beautifully summed this up in one sentence.
Victim blaming advice for me is "dont wear a short skirt as you might get raped"

sensible self care for me is " dont walk down a dark alley, especially if you are drunk or otherwise not fully functional, as you might get attacked"

[PomeralLights]

I love the blokes poster. I really do think there is something in encouraging men/women/people in social groups to look at each others behaviour and question it. So much 'banter' is actually victim blaming or aggressive and contributes to the attitude of 'just lads being lads' or 'he got confused' or 'it was there for the taking' (similar to your postings, Dragon). If we - all people - challenged this on a daily basis, rapists would be more afraid to rape - more afraid their attitudes to women had been noticed, that their mates might believe the victim, afraid that the police will see through their bullshit.

Because this poster is about fear. And fear should lie with the rapist, not the victim.

[Koalafications]

I think the more society accepts victim blaming in everyday conversation the more we normalise it and this makes it easier for men to rape and for the rest of society to come up with excuses for them.

[StillLostAtTheStation]

you cannot help but think "why did they walk there alone?"

I can honestly say that I have never thought that after hearing someone has been mugged

Me neither. And my "Rolex man" example was from real life. He wasn't actually wearing a Rolex but was mugged when drunk. The response was it was worse to attack him when he had no chance of defending himself,not that he brought it on himself.

[DuelingFanjo]

read this it's a rape survivor explaining why these posters are not helpful

[cailindana]

I think why people like Dragon bang on endlessly about "reducing risks" and "sensible advice" is because of fear. It's hard to accept that if someone wants to rape you, they will probably rape you and in fact you're far more likely to get raped at home in your own bed than anywhere else. So they believe that restricting women, making them afraid, telling them to watch out, will actually help, it's sort of magical thinking that reassures people that they can prevent the actions of another person.

Let Dragon have her beliefs. She thinks that by telling young girls they need to be wary and cautious and not fully enjoy their nights out that she's helping. She's not, but hey, no one's going to tell her any different. I hope she can carry on believing these things for the rest of her life - that she doesn't suddenly learn the hard way that believing these things makes absolutely no difference.

[JustForThisPostxThisTime]

cailindana - you carry on telling your young girls not to take care when they're out as nothing they can do can make any difference as they have not control

i however care about the people in my life and will teach them to look out for themselves and each other

[cailindana]

What normal person doesn't look out for their friends Just? Are you saying that unless a poster specifically tells women to look after each other they're just going to ignore each other? Friends look after each other, that's just normal behaviour. But telling women they can prevent sexual assault as though that's their duty is bollocks. The only thing that can prevent sexual assault is if men stop doing it. I cannot control someone else's behaviour no matter how vigilant or "good" or not drunk I am. To believe you can control someone else's behaviour, someone you don't know, someone you have no idea is out to hurt you is just utter madness.

[cailindana]

I just don't get the point of poster campaigns like this. Why tell women they must do something to prevent a crime committed by other people?

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

so Cailindana, do you think that EVERY SINGLE rape in the whole world could not have been avoided if someone had changed their actions.

Whether reminding people to keep an eye out for their friends saves one person from being raped, isnt it worth it?

[DuelingFanjo]

'Look out for yourself and others' is, as others have said, perfectly good advice for parents to give their children. It's not good effective advice for the Police to be giving people regarding rape and sexual assault.

When I was assaulted by a family friend aged about 8 I was on a pre-arranged trip to the theatre with my abuser and his wife and my siblings.

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

"I think EVERY SINGLE RAPE in the whole world could be avoided if rapists didn't rape"

yes, thanks for stating the obvious, no one is arguing this

[cailindana]

Of course every single rape in the world could be avoided if someone had changed their actions. So could every murder, and every burglary. The things is, we don't know what actions could change those things. So what do we do? Do we expect innocent law-abiding people to live in fear and change their actions, or do we expect criminals to change their actions? Do we say "Don't get married, because husbands kills wives, don't own and iPhone, because iPhones get stolen"?
Why tell innocent, law-abiding women that they need to prevent rape?

[ChopperGordino]

The actions that should be changed are not those of women

[cailindana]

I would be very interested to see research and statistics from Sussex Police on how many assaults and rapes happened in situations where women were left behind by their friends.

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

Do we expect innocent law-abiding people to live in fear and change their actions, or do we expect criminals to change their actions? Do we say "Don't get married, because husbands kills wives, don't own and iPhone, because iPhones get stolen"?

but we do all the time - Lock up your house or you will get burgled, dont flash your rolex or you might get mugged, dont leave candles burning alone or your house might burn down" life is full of "dont do this because that might happen"

that is life, and until we get the rapists to stop it IS up to all of us to take care and try and stop them

[cailindana]

Do you genuinely want your children to live in a fucked-up world where men rape 85,000 women every year and the posters that police put out are telling women to change their actions?

[PomeralLights]

Dragon the majority of people telling you you're wrong about this - myself included - are rape survivors. Have you been raped? Or is this all just hypothetical for you really?

Maybe you're not listening to us coz clearly, as we've been raped, we're not good little girls who kept ourselves safe and had lovely friends who prevented our rapes. I'll just go and toss myself on a pile of damaged goods, as your burglary analogy suggests I should.

Or you could stop collaborating in this victim blaming and open your ears to what we are trying to tell you?

[Koalafications]

Do you genuinely want your children to live in a fucked-up world where men rape 85,000 women every year and the posters that police put out are telling women to change their actions?

^ this! FFS, THIS!!

[DuelingFanjo]

I am not a house, nor a rolex.

I am not flashing my vagina at people by walking somewhere alone. I am not asking to be broken into.

[cailindana]

I am a fucking human being Dragon. I have a right to go out and get drunk and walk down alleys if I fucking well like. And no I won't be telling my daughters that they're like flashy rolexes or houses waiting to be burgled. I'll be telling them they are people, just like men, men who get to go wherever they like without police telling them they need to change their actions, despite the fact that it is MEN who rape millions of women day in and day out. I will not accept being told that I have to be afraid. I will not.

[cailindana]

Out of interest Dragon, would you be happy with a poster showing two black men saying "which one is most likely to suffer racial abuse? The one who wanders into the wrong bar." with the strapline "stick together and don't let your friends go into predominantly white bars."?