'Sussex Police is taking an innovative approach' to their new Rape awareness campaign

[DuelingFanjo]

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Innovative my arse.
Their Twitter response has been "we are not blaming victins! We can reduce number of victims in many ways. Friends can play a key role"

I would like to know which activities do they consider to be vulnerable and risky? Maybe just being a woman? Going out? Drinking?

Surely the message is that being drunk or alone leaves women and men vulnerable to all sorts of crimes, including violent crimes - so look out for your mates.

MrsCakes no it isn't. The poster has 2 young,pretty girls and refers to sexual assault.

I would have no objection to a poster which featured boys and girls which encouraged young people to look after each other . Not so much as a means of preventing crime- a drunk teenage boy who is mugged is not to be blamed any more than a drunk girl who is raped, but along the lines that if your friend is drunk then helping them to get home is a good thing to do.

I ought have said "the message should be". I completely agree that the campaign as it actually stands is awful.

There are so many outdated messages around rape and donestic violence, unfortunately police hold some of these views.

I was stalked by an ex for years, went through court etc. most of the police were fantastic but I had one say "he follows you everyday...he must really love you".

Rape occurs in daylight. At home, at work, by husbands, by fathers, by friends, by strangers. Why police always focus on stranger rape in bars, I don't really understand? Is it even the biggest risk factor, or just one where women can be told to change?

This isn't about protecting friends it is about stopping sexual assaults as their strap-line is 'many sexual assaults could be prevented' and they are saying they could be prevented by the victim or their friends which translates as ... if you don't do things the right way then you will be assaulted. How on earth is this supposed to make victims feel, other than guilty.

Women already blame themselves and are already blamed and so this kind of poster does nothing but pay into the rape apologists idea that some women are to blame for the attacks made on them. It is truly shocking that Sussex police had someone (or some people) sat on twitter for more than a day trotting out the same standard reply despite the universal criticism from victim support groups.

They say they consulted these kinds of groups, I have asked them who they consulted and they have not responded.

I want them to show us the other posters they have made, because they keep saying this is only a small part of the campaign. So show us the rest and let us judge you on them ...

Much much better, from Greater Manchester Police. Nothing about 'being vulnerable' providing a rapist's excuse.

" 'many sexual assaults could be prevented' " but this has a ring of truth to it, some sexual assaults are opportunistic, and a drunk/vulnerable girl/boy on their own is more likely to get assaulted than if they are not alone and looked after by their friends, why do predators try and separate off the 'weaker' ones from the pack before attacking?

I think there are very many good reasons to point out 'if men stopped raping then women can stop worrying about sexual assault' , but sadly there is also truth in keep you and your friends out of situations where things can happen.

if you left your child outside alone and they were kidnapped, whose fault is that? or do we blame the kidnapper solely?

Why cant we have both messages? Its not about victim blaming, its about keeping safe

( i'm female btw if that matters )

if you left your child outside alone and they were kidnapped, whose fault is that? or do we blame the kidnapper solely?

I'm sorry but that is the most stupid question I have seen in a long time. Of course the kidnapper is solely to blame. April Jones did not die because she was allowed outside to play.

Madeline McCann is not missing because of what her parents did (I would not have done what they did because I'd have worried about children waking up after a bad dream or messing about with electrical equipment. Had Madeline stuck her finger in an electric socket they could be blamed. They are not to be blamed for her abduction )

Because unfortunately so many people do blame rape on the victim, and they shouldn't be encouraged for one micro-second. The first reactions you get when telling someone about sexual assault are a) are you lying? b) you must have asked for it in some way. That is not true of any kind. Plus there is a number of men who do think it is ok to rape any woman at the slightest excuse, and these posters encourages that attitude. Finally burglary (someone upthread mentioned burglary with the same argument) is rather less unpleasant a crime than rape.

"That is not true of any kind." of any other crime I meant.

No its not a stupid question, if you left a child (a baby) unattended, say in a pram outside and the child was taken, are you saying that there would be NO blame attached to the person leaving said child outside? with the greatest respect i call bollocks! and yeah, i definitely think that people we cannot talk about should take some responsibility for what happened, i dont mean i think they did anything, i mean, you dont leave children unattended, thats a whole other conversation which is not appropriate for here

Take away the 'bad man oppressing woman' for a moment, and see where you are. when did taking responsibility for what you do, and looking after your friends become a dirty word

I am having a hard time trying to explain when people bang on about how it's just responsible to be aware of dangers just like telling people to protect their valuables.

I read this it makes sense.

Plus someone on twitter saying "This won't reduce number of victims, just means rape will happen to someone else" because that is true. Rape is not about vulnerability of the victim.

Looking after your friends is great. Telling a rape survivor's friends that they are partly to blame if their friend is raped is not OK.
Telling women that they are more vulnerable just because they are alone is not OK.

from the article I linked to:

"It’s not that we’re insufficiently aware of our own vulnerabilities; on the contrary, we’re all crushed by the constant reminders of how vulnerable we are. From early childhood we’re taught to be fearful of the wolf that lurks in the shadows. We’re reminded not to stray too far from the forest path or else we’ll get eaten up. We grow older, watching films and reading stories in which the rape and mutilation of women serve as common plot devices. We are told to think of ourselves as laptops, as unlocked doors, as open wallets, as property that anyone might take unless we’re locked safely away. We know we’re not meant to go outside. Outside might, statistically, be safer, but it doesn’t feel that way."

and

"Of course, it is not just women who will see posters such as this one. Rapists will, too. And what does this say to a rapist, if not “this is how things happen”? When women get drunk, when they meet strangers, when they wander off alone, this is how things work. Rape is what happens when women “make themselves vulnerable.” As Jill Filipovic points out, research has shown that “cultural opposition to rape myths makes men less likely to commit assault, and acceptance of those myths makes sexual assault more likely”:

In social groups where there is wide acceptance of rape myths – for example, the beliefs that acquaintance rape is a problem of communication or "mixed signals", that rapists simply can't control their sexual urges, that women often lie about rape, or that women invite rape upon themselves by their actions or manner of dressing – rape proclivity is higher. When men internalize rape myths, they are more likely to commit rape or see rape as more acceptable.

A woman can only make herself vulnerable if others have already learned to see her as potential prey."

Try to think beyond your 'women are just like children' Analogy...

and read this

But where do you draw the line Dragon? My 9 year old is allowed out to play unsupervised. He is old enough to be resonsible and stick to boundaries. If someone took him should I shoulder some of the balme? What about when he is 12 and walking back and forth to school alone?

People are responsible for their actions. If you rape someone, you raped them because you are a rapist. You didn't rape them because their friends didn't keep an eye on them.

Dragon, I am legally responsible for my children, therefore if they are in my care and they get abducted/hurt my actions will be questioned. I love my friends and I do watch out for them but I don't need posters telling me I can prevent them getting assaulted. Why? Because 1) it's not my responsibility to prevent men committing crimes and 2) it's not even true. The vast vast majority of assaults are carried out by a woman's friends, family and acquaintances. No one could have prevented the two rapes I experienced - they both happened when I was 'safe' at home, not drunk, with people I thought I could trust. The same goes for nearly everyone I know who's been raped.
All the poster does is make women feel more frightened and responsible. And as usual men, the ones who actually commit the crimes, aren't even mentioned.

“cultural opposition to rape myths makes men less likely to commit assault, and acceptance of those myths makes sexual assault more likely” This.

Every. Single. Time. Rape is discussed you have some yahoo chime in with the "well, you should take some responsibility for other people's criminal behaviour, because, reasons.

So, let me be clear. I love my friends and family very much. However, it's not my place to police their movements. If one of them was raped, I would feel awful for them and would offer all my support and love to them, but it would not have been my responsibility that they were raped nor would the crime committed against them be their responsibility.

If I were raped after a night out it would in no way be my friend's responsibility that a crime was committed against me. Nor would it be mine. The onus of blame lies solely and completely with the rapist.

I would be horrified if my friends were made to feel responsible for the criminal behaviour of strangers. It is a disgusting thing to suggest.

But if your friends actions (keeping an eye on you) would have stopped the attack (lets take this away from rape and make it less emotive, lets make it a mugging) how could they not feel guilty - even though its someone elses actions that caused the attack (by actually doing it)

we are all responsible for ourselves and our friends and people around us.....

Thats the issue, at this point, while not victim blaming - not absolving us of our own actions.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." so if you saw your friend being attacked, would you stand and watch? no? if you saw your friend staggering off down a dark alley, would you stop her? yes. what would happen if you saw your friend staggering, clearly drunk, down a dark alley and you didnt stop her are you absolved off ALL guilt? no you are not and i dont know how you think you can be. And just because you have some guilt does not lessen the guilt of the attacker - thats the real issue and question

Does someone who does not protect their friend take any guilt away from the attacker? no - it doesnt, the attacker is STILL as guilty as shit

I'm not trying to be inflamatory at all, but i do think this is a valid view point

I love some of the responses on the petition

"The poster suggests that it is not safe for women to go out on their own. As a grown adult living in a civilised society I expect to be able to anywhere I like and not be raped simply for being alone. . Are the men in Sussex really that dangerous? What are the police doing about this?"

"Sussex Police think women are to be blamed for thinking they can go where they want, when they want and with whom they wish. Their twitter replies are equally alarming, equally upsetting and truly disturbing"

But not all women who stagger off drunk down an alley get raped; your hypothetical friend might well have known the person she staggered off with.
stranger rape accounts for a really small proportion of rape. And saying it's avoidable DOES push the guilt back onto the victim rather than the perpetrator.

It should be challenged, this view that young girls can prevent being raped by sticking together, just as rape as a feminist issue should be challenged. It's not a "women's issue" it is one for society as a whole to deal with, and IMO that starts with telling rapists that they're wrong, not that it's the victim's fault for not sticking with her mates.

my post was todragon btw...

"not absolving us of our own actions" What actions are these then that we shouldn't be 'absolved' of? Wanting to be able to walk around alone? Go home with a man without being raped by him? Losing track of a friend in a night club? ...

Or raping someone?

Which needs the greater absolution there I wonder. You are comparing actions that we should be able to do but are having restricted because of these shitty anti-rape campaigns with actions of violent men.

And no-one on this thread is saying don't be a friend to someone.

Loving the responses to the petition!