'Sussex Police is taking an innovative approach' to their new Rape awareness campaign

[DuelingFanjo]

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Innovative my arse.
Their Twitter response has been "we are not blaming victins! We can reduce number of victims in many ways. Friends can play a key role"

I would like to know which activities do they consider to be vulnerable and risky? Maybe just being a woman? Going out? Drinking?

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

no one is saying the rapist is not wrong, i just dont like the idea that its unavoidable, because in some cases it is avoidable

by saying this doesnt lessen the behaviour of the rapist or make it any less horrific, and thats what i feel a lot of people are saying, that if some/any of the 'guilt' is on the victim or their friends, then its less on the attacker.

we should be teaching our children to stick together, to lessen the risk, not say 'well they shouldnt be doing it in the first place' - we ALL know that they shouldnt be doing it in the first place, thats not even an argument

[TheCrowFromBelow]

I don't disagree about teaching safety on a night out and it extends to men as well as women.

However, the flipside of the message that raped or being beaten up is avoidable if you stay with your friends is that if, for whatever reason, you choose to leave by yourself and you get raped or beaten up, it's your fault or your friend's fault, because you could have avoided it.

Whereas a campaign focussing on the behaviour of rapists and attackers, rather than telling victims how to avoid them, would place all of the blame where it lies and not make victims feel like it's their fault.

[StillLostAtTheStation]

I find your argument about "avoidable crime" untenable . If a man wearing a Rolex watch and carrying a Louis Vuitton briefcase gets drunk and they are stolen no one suggests he is to blame. If anything there is more sympathy if he was blind drunk and didn't know what was happening. And that's right. The moral, decent thing to do is not to mug him.

The only person who has the power to make any crime "avoidable" is the potential perpetrator. The mugger who looks at Rolex bloke and thinks "poor sod, hope he's ok" rather than seeing him as an opportunity has avoided committing a crime.

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

" . If a man wearing a Rolex watch and carrying a Louis Vuitton briefcase gets drunk and they are stolen no one suggests he is to blame. If anything there is more sympathy if he was blind drunk "

i disagree, if he is 'flashing his cash' around, he is blamed, and he is also ridiculed if he was drunk

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

and again, i disagree with "the only person who has the power to make any crime "avoidable" is the potential perpetrator."

this is just saying that anyone can do anything to you and you have no power, what kind of bullshit is this?

what i think you mean is

"the only person who has the power to make some crimes "avoidable" is the potential perpetrator."

how would you describe an opportunist theft then? do i have no responsibility if i leave my phone on the bus and someone steals it, of course i do - thats why insurance companies have 'due care and attention'

[StillLostAtTheStation]

You are mixing up civil law and criminal law. The contract of insurance may have exclusions for being daft (although having thought I had lost a very expensive phone recently in fairly daft circumstances my insurers only required me to report it to the police).

How would I describe an "opportinistc theft" - simple "theft".

Your comments about "flashing his card around" just emphasise how ridiculous your position is. Victim blaming is wrong there too.

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

in an ideal world, we would all be able to go anywhere, and do anything without fear of attack. we dont live in an ideal world, but we do live in a world where we can sometimes chose not to put ourselves in vulnerable positions.

[DuelingFanjo]

I wonder, dragon, if you would use he same 'flashing cash' analogy when deciding whether or not to sympathise with a rape victim?

[DuelingFanjo]

What if the friend you stick with is also your rapist? You are in a vulnerable position then too. Given that statistically you are much more likely to know your attacker this kind of 'stick with your mates' advice is bullshit.

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

i didnt say he deserved it, what i said was that he would be blamed, I wouldnt blame him, but there are

according to www.rapecrisis.org.uk/commonmyths2.php
"But in fact, only around 10% of rapes are committed by 'strangers'."
thats still a lot of rape, and maybe some of those could have been stopped



"Given that statistically you are much more likely to know your attacker this kind of 'stick with your mates' advice is bullshit."
right ok - lets tell all out young ladies (and men) out there, dont bother sticking with your mates and looking after them???

[StillLostAtTheStation]

I mentioned "Rolex man" because in reality the courts take a dim view of opportunistic crimes perpetrated on drunk people (with the obvious notable exception)

I've read case reports where the sentencing judge has made comments such as " rather than assisting the victim you saw it as an opportunity. .." and has made clear such behaviour is contemptible.

[Koalafications]

Oh FFS. That poster is awful. I like the one with the men out drinking that has been mocked up, it's much better (however, as a female is statistically more likely to be raped by someone she knows they should make a poster with the family sitting around the dinner table.)

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

i think the male one is fantastic and should be used, as we know, rapists do look like everyone else

[GinAndSonic]

If someone sticks a knife in someone else there is, rightly, outrage.
If someone sticks their dick in someone else? Well, what was she wearing? How much had she drunk? Where were her friends?

Such bullshit. But the rape apologists wont use murder as their go to comparison crime, because comparing women to laptops and watches is much easier than comparing them to, y'know, humans.

[Koalafications]

Yes, Gin because our vaginas and mouths are optional accessories.

[DuelingFanjo]

Dragon, why jump to the extreme conclusion that we tell people not to stick with their mates?

Surely the alternative to telling women to change and curtail their movements would be to send messages that target the perpetrators pf the crime and improve conviction rates.

[GinAndSonic]

Oh yeah Koala, silly me, i forgot that i can leave my orifices at home when i go out drinking!

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

because this is not an ideal world, and people are not nice - i personally find it really annoying to hear people say that EVERY SINGLE rape could not be avoided by a change of behaviour/action of victim - which is not victim blaming or being a rape apologist

Normal people are outraged with murder and knifings and raping.

[TheCrowFromBelow]

But Dragon don't you see that by saying "you should stay safe, don't behave in XX way and put yourself at risk" the implication is that the person who gets raped didn't stay safe, didn't avoid it and therefore is to blame in some way? When in reality the blame lies solely 100% with the rapist.

Rape isn't a preventable disease, or even equatable to an opportunistic theft. It's a violent crime against another person. Nobody invites it in any way.

[DragonWithAGirlTattoo]

so every single rape in the world ever would not be able to be prevented by taking a different action??

this does not remove any % of blame from the attacker

[Koalafications]

I know Gin we women are so stupid. Tsk!

[TheCrowFromBelow]

But for the authorities to run a campaign saying "girls here's how to stop getting raped" instead of "men here's how to stop raping" implies that a % of the blame does lie with the victim.