Does it matter that women get misgendered

[mariamin]

Women get misgendered by being called guys all the time.

Dudes means men. I would hate to be called a dude.
I do like the feminist thing of calling other women sisters.

I've sometimes heard women addressed as "ladies" in sports contexts. But that's only good if the activity involves sweat and plenty of mud. Oh well, rowing maybe.

almondcakes I'm not saying that I'm the one who uses it, but frankly when you're eyeballs out killing yourself in the final push for the line then I wouldn't care what anyone called me!

One aspect of "guys" that works well for the default male is that it's a handy single word for "men and boys", which avoids infantalising men as boys. I think the closest female equivalent for "women and girls" is probably "girls", but this tends to infantalise women as girls, in a sexist way. I don't, however, think that including women and/or girls in "guys" is necessarily the best way to improve things for women and girls.

I'd like to see "women" become a more acceptable and popular form of addressing, or even just referring to, any group of women. I know that is a tall order because I think that the word "women" is currently more unpopular among women than even the word "ladies". Why? Is it because "women" is seen as less feminine than "ladies"? If so, why?

It's because it's seen as abrupt somehow. Although I want to use it in theory, in practice I use "say thank you to the lady" etc with the DC.

Of course, "boys" can sometimes mean "men and boys", which could infantalise men, but men have the readily available alternative and synonymous word "guys". Apart from under the now defunct Apartheit system in South Africa, I don't think that "boy" has anywhere near the same infantalising effect for men as "girls" has for women. So, men do not face the infantalisation versus misgendering choice that women are expected to put up with.

What happened to Ladies and Gentlemen or Everyone (as in Good evening, Ladies and Gentlemen or Hello, Everyone)?

I don't like to be included in a Hello Guys greeting because I've always thought of a guy as being a man / male. Does anyone remember Guy Mitchell, the singer? And we've all heard about Guy Fawkes. 'Guy' indicates male. Others: Guy Ritchie, Guy Madison, Guy de Maupassant. They are all men in case you didn't know.

EveBoswel I think you've highlighted the fact that context is important. 'Ladies and Gentlemen' - polite, friendly but rather formal. 'Guys' = one of the team, we're in it together.
I was trying to think of the 'rallying calls' that have been used when I've been racing and even those have been different at the various stages of the race. Best ever was the one that named who we are... final straight, lungs bursting... 'Great Britain... TAKE...ME...HOME!' Stirring stuff. 'Ladies and gentlemen' wouldn't have had the same effect at that precise moment

TeiTetua yes we're sometimes referred to as 'ladies'. We did go through a phase of agreeing that we're not terribly ladylike so would 'Great Britain Women' be preferable, but it didn't last long.

53Dragon wrote - "frankly when you're eyeballs out killing yourself in the final push for the line then I wouldn't care what anyone called me!"

Your comment made me wonder if a men's football team in a major cup final, with only two minutes of injury time left, would find a crowd chanting "Come on girls!" so inspiring that they then raised their game enough to score a winning goal.

I say "guys", from working with a lot of Americans. I would infinitely prefer people to say "guys" than "ladies", which is what my boss kept saying despite my protests, in the end I had to ring him and ask him very directly to stop doing it.

DD2 is 13.

She would say "you go, girl" to a boy, and not feel it would be taken badly. (I mean, like, "come on, ladies", or "come on girls" said to a group of men might be a mild pejorative!)

She suggested "mortals" and "comrades". (I guess comrades would be traditionally associated with males, but only because men would traditionally be soldiers, which isn't true, now.) So, maybe the younger generation have got this covered.

Mortals! Never come across that - is that commonly used in the younger generation or was it her own creative contribution?

I quite like it. Certainly unifying. Hmm, or does it suggest that the speaker considers themself some form of deity?

Greetings, Earthlings?

Maybe it's like "lord, what fools these mortals be"?

I am a Bachelor, a Master, a Fellow and so at this point I really don't mind being a 'guy' as well, or a 'chap' and would use these myself. Although in my line of work the rest of the team usually is male.

I don't mind 'ladies and gentlemen', but being referred to as 'the ladeez' or 'ladeeeez' is so patronising I want to punch people. In some parts of Scotland all women groups would be referred to as 'the wifeys'. I didn't like that much. Guys is much to be preferred really.

the wifeys?

wtf?!!!

lol @ earthlings liking that one

I'm not really following why "wifeys" , which at least recognises it is an all female group and is vernacular to the location it is used, is so terrible that an Americanism which is still for many purposes a male signifier is preferable.

"Wifeys" in the context you refer to is just "the womenfolk" . What is wrong with that if it's referring to an all female group ?

Huh?

Because not all women are "wives"
Because referring to a group of women as wives is reducing them to their marital status as the defining thing about them, because it references them based on their relationship to a man and nothing else
Because "wifeys" for wives is twee as fuck

It's just appalling.

As it's scotland and I'm not scottish I will retract the twee comment.

But not the rest of it.

Actually in a Scottish dialect context it has nothing to do with marital status.

It's older than wife meaning married, simply means woman.

"wife" comes from "wif" which meant "female". more details here

In quite a few languages I can think of "wife" and "woman" are the same word (though there is often an alternative as well e.g. épouse), but "husband" and "man" are different words