Does it matter that women get misgendered

[mariamin]

Women get misgendered by being called guys all the time.

And how did you deal with the woman who objected? If I were in your team I probably wouldn't say anything but would quietly seethe.

Re "kids" I don't like it and it's not a word I use to refer to children. Nothing to do with being confused with goats , I just find it a bit derogatory.

But I feel misgendered when referred to with "ladies".

I'm not a lady. I'll accept 'woman' but I'm not really comfortable being identified by my biological sex at all.

"Guys" is therefore less offensive to me. But I appreciate the male origin and associated issues too.

It's not the maleness I don't like. I don't think it is misgendered. It's the faux American/faux chumminess which I don't like.

'Folks'is preferable for me, though I've never given it much thought before.

A term i hate is 'girls'. A manager at work frequently refers to her supervisees as her girls and greets them with 'hi girls' and sometimes 'girlies' The oldest is 57, the youngest 24. I think guys would be preferable to girls.

Totally agree that calling grown women 'girls', or worse, 'baby girl', or even worser and actually happened on a regular basis in one office I worked in, 'dollybirds' is infuriating and infantilising. I personally don't mind 'guys' as I agree common usage has become gender-neutral, even if it didn't start out that way.

Dollybirds? That's very Carry On at the Office, isn't it?

Dolly birds?

Christ!

I tend not to use 'guys', more often I will use something like 'everybody' or 'hey people' or 'you lot!' because 'guys' does seem more male to me.

I am in an international environment. Lots of people use "guys" to refer to and to address groups of people in a friendly setting. In practice, it is used as a gender-neutral term, ie to include both men and women, or groups of one or the other.

I also hear it to address groups that are all-girl by DD and her friends, which I find a bit odd but they are comfortable and find it gender-neutral.

Yes, it has a US origin, which I didn't used to feel comfortable with, but I have become used to it. I do use it these days as I find it useful to use what seems to have become a gender-neutral term. I haven't found an alternative.

Anything is better than "girls" to address grown-up women. I refer to female students as "women" and late-teenagers as "young women".

Oh yes, dollybirds. Ironically, the rather older man who used the term was actually one of the nicer blokes in that office! This was a place where the HR manager was the one expected to make the tea and biscuits simply because she was the nearest woman to the kitchen. The whole place was Carry On up the 80s Sexist Racist Yuppyism. In the 21st century. It didn't end well for me.

I try to avoid guys but do use it, at my work it is definitely used in a gender neutral way eg hi guys (team) BUT if a man said "I'm going to the pub with the guys" he would almost certainly be talking about men. So there's the work culture where the international / US meaning is used and then a separate "local" UK version now I think of it.

Anyway I try to avoid it and the one I tend to use is "people". It's difficult isn't it. Folks doesn't come naturally at all and the other day I said hey kids without thinking and a bloke twitched and i can see why so um. People is safe, I think.

Peeps?

lol harry enfield

Oh I do say gang as well "morning gang!"

It is possible I'm a bit irritating.

Yo motherfuckers!

I agree with SGB , people/you lot is what I would use.

I had a female boss who if adressing her collectively just said "team" You need to stick something like "OK team , time to get this done/ready to meet" or similar as an opener but it works.

*Oh I do say gang as well "morning gang!"

It is possible I'm a bit irritating.*

Not at all. That would be fine by me.

lol

I'll throw in a "peeps" next time

Actually the old classic "everyone" is perfectly good isn't it.

Guys is not universal in the States. It is used far less in the South, where it still has a more masculine connotation. People tend to say things like "hello, everyone," or "good morning, team." And then, of course, there is the ever useful "y'all."

Oh, and Still, friendliness is generally part of American culture; in that sense it is genuine. There is nothing "faux" about it.

It's weird that we have worked so hard to get people to stop using man or mankind when they mean people or the human race, but now people are introducing 'guys' to the UK.

I was in a restaurant the other day with DD and DS and we were referred to as guys. Two of us are not guys including the person who is paying the bill. But like the earlier poster, I just silently seethed. We always seem to be one step forward two steps back.

I understand what Still means about the faux element. If somebody expressed that level of friendliness in the UK it would mean that they were in some sense your friend. The same is not true in the US and it can lead to a cultural misunderstanding if you assume US people acting friendly feel they are your friend. There is still a boundary there - they are just using a friendly turn of phrase.

I'm in a female sports team and our use of 'guys', 'ladies' and 'girls' is pretty much interchangeable - no one thinks anything of it. Perhaps that's because we're all down to Earth, pragmatic types with better things to worry about

You wouldn't call a group of men "girls" or "ladies" though presumably. Or even a mixed group?

But "guys" is not really considered any more friendly in the US than many other collective words. It's considered more informal, but not necessarily friendlier.

Perhaps I am being over-sensitive, but Still also used the expression "irritating Americanism." "Americanism" on MN almost always has some sort of pejorative adjective attached.