Does it matter that women get misgendered

[mariamin]

Women get misgendered by being called guys all the time.

I use "folks" for family and I'm British - think it is pretty common here too, unless my peer group is somehow unusual.

I have two teenagers and they never say 'guys.' The only people who I have ever heard use it are people in service roles. Although it also sounds like the kind of thing David Cameron would have said in his 'call me Dave' phase.

Agree with what vesuvia said upthread.

'Folk' seems like an innocuous ungendered collective, but it's maybe a bit too family/tribal/bumpkin vibe to sit comfortably in the workplace? (I may be wrong, just can't quite imagine it in my own multi-national team. Perhaps I should try it out.)

Errol I think it would be too family/tribal/bumpkin where I am in the US South; and if its vibe would be too "folksy" here, than I am fairly sure it would not work in other places.

Somebody at work does say "folks". I'm OK with that.

Folk comes from Proto-Germanic I believe (volk). It just means people (see Norfolk, Suffolk etc)

Your right, that Irish link seemed a bit off, I wondered if it was someone taking the mickey out of the English.

"Folks" is a synonym for family where I come from too. It can also be used collectively. My brother and his wife use it as a greeting for me , my husband and son.

Come to think of it one of my partners who is from a rural area uses it as the collective for the members of his team /our department. They all sound very natural.

Actually thinking about it several of them use "folks" as the team collective.

Why are you telling alex her feelings aren't valid because you, as a bloke, has never knowingly offended anyone by calling them chaps and you are a good bloke?

Sorry for being a bit thick scallops, I am after all an uneducated oaf, but where in my post do I say that alex's feelings aren't valid? Also, I didn't claim, nor have I ever claimed, to be a good bloke. I said I hope they remember me as such.

You helpfully didn't point out that I would be mortified if this offended any of the women I worked with, so thanks for that.

alexpolistigers, I hope my post didn't upset you. If it did, I apologise profusely, I was speaking from personal experience as were you.

Lass and lad is used in Yorkshire for all ages of females and males respectively. I rather like the terms (although rarely use them myself these days). Lass does not have the negative connotations which Buffy attributes to "lassie" upthread.

I guess 'lassie' is ok where it's got the equal pairing with 'laddie'.

Which it does.

I regularly address mixed groups in my job and I have never used "guys". I just say "hello". Or "hello everybody"...

I have a horror of gendered address after reading Delusion of Gender. I have never said "boys and girls" to a mixed group of children.

DoctorTwo, someone says they don't like being called guy and you reply directly to her that you call women guys all the time and they don't complain. Why would you say that to them?

I'm sure you would be mortified if you offended them. Not sure how that is relevant. Nor whether they think you are a good bloke.

Sorry not 'guy', 'chap'.

DoctorTwo

Rest assured that if I ever met you face to face and you referred to me as 'chap' I would have no hesitation in objecting to it.

It is possible that the women of your acquaintance don't say anything to you about it because (a) they feel awkward complaining, they are not the sort to kick up a fuss (b) they are all internally worried that they are the only one objecting. Of course it is also possible that they genuinely don't mind. However, you shopuld be aware that there are women out there who are not happy with it.

Sorry if this is muddled but I'm trying to get my thoughts together.
I read some stuff a long time ago, I can't remember the author but it was about the language of insult wrt learning disabilities.
Whatever words are used (to describe a person with a ld) eventually become unacceptable as it is seen as insulting.

Because people with a ld are so othered, whatever words are used wI'll become insults, and I think that is what is going on here. Wif becomes wife a married woman -a lesser being, the diminutive is used 'wifey' to compound the insult.
Lass, meaning female becomes lassie, the child woman and again we are insulted by the use of a word describing a woman.
We are so othered that we see the female descriptive terms as less than and are happy to hear the higher status 'male' terms to describe us.

that's a bit of a sweeping 'us' I was just thinking about the acceptance of the use of guys in many quarters.

Rowrowrow.... Just to clarify yet again. Buffy was referring to the way her cousin uses the expressions. No matter how much other posters wish it to be otherwise.

We have people at work who send mails starting, "Folks..."

I have a hatred of the word folk, which is entirely irrational, and I don't know where it comes from. Perhaps I had a traumatic experience as a child.

Yes, that's the sort of context we'd get folks used in. Along with other '70s ideas for inclusive, educational play that 6 year olds really love.

I can only visualise George Bush when someone says "folks" - rich old white Republican men who are trying to get down with the people.

I do use "guys" for teens of all ages, but I now shall rethink that after this thread.

Hmm. The only non-gendered casual word I can think of to gather teenage attention before eg herding them across the road is "peeps". Though perhaps I could lever the embarrassment value of a middle-aged woman using teen-speak by saying "fam".