Does it matter that women get misgendered

[mariamin]

Women get misgendered by being called guys all the time.

Seneca, do you mean using the word itself? I think when a word is taken from another culture where no other word with the same meaning exists, that is not seen as negative. So the word Americanism is useful, rather like the French using coca-colonisation (itself derived from a US word). The same must apply to various other words that have specialist meanings invented in the US. Also everyday words like bikini which have come via the US don't have a negative meaning, despite their original connotation.

But phrases that are brought in purely because of US dominance have a pejorative connotation. The same is probably true of Estuary English spreading to many regions of the UK. It is damaging to regional dialects.

Sorry, posted too soon. I meant to add that when these words (or pronunciations) make their way back across the Atlantic, linguistic xenophobia often raises its head.

But not all Americanisms are considered a bad thing, Seneca. Some are though.

As an aside, completely irrelevant to most of this discussion except for what Almond said upthread about American English speakers using American but it not always translating across well, I found out this evening that, in Australian Sign Language (Auslan) the sign for coca-cola means something VERY different in BSL and should never be used in polite company!

I understand almond and don't necessarily disagree. The dominance of California and New York media in the US has diminished the richness of regional language, particularly in the South, although I am happy to report that the ever-useful "y'all" is still current.

Seneca I don't think it is odd. As far as I understand it, diaper is an older word in UK English than nappy, but it would still be an Americanism to use it now.

It is rather like racist words. Nitty gritty is considered racist by some, while bulldozer is not. There is no historical record of nitty gritty being racist, while bulldozer does have such a record (as far as I know). It is about what words mean to people now.

I think a degree of xenophobia about taking on elements of a culture that is globally dominant is acceptable. In the UK and many other countries, a huge part of our culture is American. The same is not true in reverse. Any claim that other cultures are not sufficiently accomodating of American cultural accommodations is ludicrous, as any quick glance at music charts, films being shown or tv schedules in the UK (or many other countries) compared to the US will show.

Seneca, I was wondering about the Texan speech in Boyhood, as I found it really refreshing. Was it authentic?

I haven't seen Boyhood yet (I prefer British films ), but I'll listen to a clip and see what I think.

'Bikini' came via the US? Hmmm, I'm fairly certain it was coined by the French.

Anyway: comrades.

Comrades is a bit too Red Flag though, isn't it?

My apologies to the French!

I'm fairly certain 'bikini comes from the place name

this covers biki pretty well

I've just been reading about it, thanks a lot!

It is named after the Bikini Atoll and was designed originally by the Frenchman Louis Réard, who released it soon after the atomic detonation on the Bikini Atoll (by the Americans) - and just after the other French designer Jacques Heim, launched his 2-piece, called the "atome" because of it's smallness. Réard called his the bikini because, "like the [atom] bomb, the bikini is small and devastating".

ThumbWitches, comrades is absurd. But to me, so is 'people'.

When I hear it I always think of some terribly (self) important scene in ER or The West Wing. "On my count, people!"

Nothing inherently wrong with either word, though, from a gender-neutral perspective.

I use 'chaps' for both men and women. For individual people whose name I don't know I go with 'our kid'. If anybody's been offended they not said owt.

I have never used 'chapesses', it's just

I see what you mean about "people" but I suppose the problem I have with it is that it's a descriptor word for a group of humans, rather than a name for them. I prefer "folks" - although really that's not a lot different, it just sounds better.

As usual, the Quakers, with their traditions of equality in titles and forms of address, may have the best solution. I just remembered that I had a Quaker professor who used to begin every lesson, "Good afternoon, Friends."

Folks is certainly friendlier. Interestingly, in the US it's often used instead of 'parents'.

Oh I don't know, Seneca - I'd be wary of using "Friends" in certain circumstances. Just in case some of them are actually right bastards, you know?

almondcakes bit of a derail but I was interested to come across Britishisms that have made their way into American culture. I was surprised to see it was not as much one way traffic as I thought.

/www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19670686

Bespoke is gaining ground. Roundabout is pretty common now, as we get more roundabouts. "Smart" as in well-dressed is becoming more common, too.

That article has reminded me of an Americanism I do use. I use college to mean university, as I dislike 'uni' and university is a bit long to sat informally.

Grimbletart, I completely derailed this thread.

In the context I hear "guys" and even "dudes" used for women (outdoor extreme sports) I like its use. It is used to avoid "other ing" us women and for us all to acknowledge the sameness.
I would HATE IT if there were "guys who ride" and then there were "women" separately. It's a pity it's not a neutral word but it is meant to include not exclude.
I ride in all female events and people often call "guys" - we would not like ladies or girls and "right, listen up women" just doesn't sound right as a start-line safety briefing.

I forgot Friends! Good point. The Quakers also have a completely different system of address, dispensing with Mr Mrs Ms Dr etc, and replacing it with Firstname Lastname.

OK, so we can add to a longlist of collective nouns/addresses for mixed groups:

• Friends
• Comrades
• Dudes

all of which work in some situations but cannot be used as universally as Everyone, Folks, Team or Guys (jury out on how acceptable that is).