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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

The greens and prostitutes

807 replies

IceBeing · 04/03/2015 21:21

Be gentle as I am new to thinking about this.

I found the Natalie Bennett's comments on decriminalising prostitution pretty persuasive - what am I missing?

She basically said that sex workers would like this policy (having contributed to it) and that research from other countries indicated it was the way forward.

OP posts:
mary24go · 09/03/2015 17:03

rivetingrosie

  1. Point one about what you feel is good sex is only relevant to you.
  1. Mens sex drive is different to ours and to be honest when i hire a plumber, carpenter or bricklayer i am hiring them for a specific task and i expect it is the same for hiring a sex worker.
  1. It is not a fallacy and women do buy sex we just do it less than men do, mens sex drives have far less to do with socialization than ours does.

If you try to solve the problem based on flawed data it will fail miserably.

www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare

health.howstuffworks.com/sexual-health/sexuality/men-have-stronger-sex-drive.htm

www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex_relationships/facts/malesexualresponse.htm

books.google.co.uk/books?id=mspeVrvH2QoC&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=who+has+the+higher+sex+drive+men+or+women&source=bl&ots=I-BIKXth80&sig=-NwQ50HQmbmrrdNYpYs_v0WzES8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ls79VP_zLK6N7AajlYCIAg&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=who%20has%20the%20higher%20sex%20drive%20men%20or%20women&f=false

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit · 09/03/2015 17:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PetulaGordino · 09/03/2015 17:10

Sex drive is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. No one has a right to sex.

FloraFox · 09/03/2015 17:18

mary24go why are you saying "we" and "our"? You don't know if men's sex drive is different than mine. Also, men post on MN too. I find faux-group speak odd.

Even if men have a higher sex drive than women, so what? That's no justification for having sex on someone who doesn't want it.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 09/03/2015 17:23

Precisely what does that have to do with Greens policy? Nothing. And the links... omg!

As Petula says....

No one has a right to sex, no matter their sex drive or lack thereof.

You sound like one of those idiots who states that if men can't use prostituted women, then either they'll start raping random women, or their balls will explode. Both of which have been said in all seriousness.

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 09/03/2015 17:28

Mary, for some prostitutes and their punters, no doubt it is like hiring a plumber - Kim seems to take this kind of attitude.

For many, though, it's about buying power.

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 09/03/2015 17:32

As purchasing power over another.

mary24go · 09/03/2015 17:42

I think you ought to take your own advice, tbh.

Then provide links to studies etc and i will revise my position if they are sound.

mary24go · 09/03/2015 17:44

"Even if men have a higher sex drive than women, so what? That's no justification for having sex on someone who doesn't want it."

I 100% agree that is why i am in a prostitution thread rather than a rape thread.

Did you get lost?

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 09/03/2015 17:51

No one is lost, Mary. It's not an uncommon position that bought consent is no consent.

HTH.

FloraFox · 09/03/2015 17:54

mary24go you may be lost on the fact that if the woman wanted the sex, no money would need to change hands. By its nature, the women don't want the sex.

FloraFox · 09/03/2015 17:55

Most women get that point, TBH. It tends to be men who have the delusion that women in prostitution want to have sex with them.

mary24go · 09/03/2015 17:56

"As purchasing power over another."

Sure but where you see a difference i do not.

I purchase the services of a bricklayer and as such i have the power to make him do the job the way he agreed to when he gave the quote and i accepted it.

If he does not do the job the way i asked and is instead one of those dodgy builders then i either pay him less or go to the trading standards, i have that power.

I do find it interesting that you are fixated on who has the power considering it has been several decades in western countries since women got the power as far as sex is concerned.

It seems you want to make sure that men have to play by whatever rules you decide if they want sex and stopping prostitution removes a pay as you go option that would take that power away from you and allow men a choice.

More importantly you are deciding what a woman can or cannot do with her own body or allow to be done to it and i will always find that unacceptable.

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit · 09/03/2015 17:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit · 09/03/2015 18:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FloraFox · 09/03/2015 18:01

considering it has been several decades in western countries since women got the power as far as sex is concerned.

WTF? You're all over the place here.

More importantly you are deciding what a woman can or cannot do with her own body or allow to be done to it and i will always find that unacceptable.

Since you have a short posting history here, I can't see what other areas of women's self-determination you are exercised about. Is it just the "right" to have her body commodified?

We hear your points on here all the time from MRAs.

mary24go · 09/03/2015 18:07

"mary24go you may be lost on the fact that if the woman wanted the sex, no money would need to change hands. By its nature, the women don't want the sex."

It would be more accurate to say that they want the money more than they do not want sex and again that is a compromise people do all the time in every walk of life.

I may only want to go to work on Tuesdays to Thursdays but if i want more money to pay the bills or go out at the weekend i have to go from Monday to Friday.

By your reasoning i am working without consent and therefore i am a slave even though i have agreed to do it for a amount of pay.

Just as:

By your reasoning i am having sex without consent and therefore being raped even though i have agreed to do it for a amount of pay.

Life is compromise and we cannot simply ascribe the term slavery to work simply because we would prefer to get paid to not do it or do less nor can we do the same thing for sex.

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit · 09/03/2015 18:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 09/03/2015 18:11

"I do find it interesting that you are fixated on who has the power considering it has been several decades in western countries since women got the power as far as sex is concerned."

Has it?

Why are so many women raped, then?

PuffinsAreFictitious · 09/03/2015 18:15

I do find it interesting that you are fixated on who has the power considering it has been several decades in western countries since women got the power as far as sex is concerned.

Oh my days! This has to be one of the funniest things I've seen on this section of MN for an age. I can't decide if it's funnier for how wrong it is, or how very very far wrong it is.

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 09/03/2015 18:16

And incidentally, I don't hold the permission that bought consent is no consent. I pointed out it wasn't an uncommon position so that nobody had got lost, as you somewhat aggressively suggested.

Bought consent lies between free consent and no consent. Kim's bought consent lies close to free consent. A woman selling consent to avoid being beaten by her pimp is at the no consent end of the spectrum.

mary24go · 09/03/2015 18:26

"Since you have a short posting history here, I can't see what other areas of women's self-determination you are exercised about. Is it just the "right" to have her body commodified? We hear your points on here all the time from MRAs."

MRA's can fuck off as i mentioned in another thread on here in fact i was considered unsuitable for their forums after trying to join.

But you can hear my points from Christina Hoff Sommers and other equity feminists and they are far more detailed coming from her rather than the MRA although to be honest i am not sure of her stance on prostitution as i have only just started reading her material.

Here is a interesting blog:

maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/imaginary-crises/

As far as MRA's are concerned the more conservative among them are just as against prostitution as you are, interesting that you bring up control and well lets be honest and say that control is exactly what conservatives are about.

mary24go · 09/03/2015 18:35

"IIRC, the last person who was so invested in arguing this very perspective had a delightful anecdote....blah blah.."

Interesting anecdote, useless but interesting.

FYI last time i heard people argue against prostitution as much as you do and use anecdotal arguments like you do were far right conservative men.

They used words like "immoral" instead of "consent" etc but the truth is they were only interested in controlling sex for their own interests and gain.

Chew that over a bit.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 09/03/2015 18:37

Anyway.... enough of the gay badinage.

Back to the thread, maybe?

Having done a fair amount of travelling, I'm going to posit that the NZ model won't work in the same way in the UK, due to geographical considerations. What say the people capable of debate?

FloraFox · 09/03/2015 18:40

mary24go you have not written a single word we have not heard many times before from the many men who have come before you on this issue. Why don't you chew on that.