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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

What do men think feminists should be focusing their energies on?

552 replies

PetulaGordino · 08/02/2015 21:31

It's pretty clear that there are many men with constructive criticism to offer feminists in terms of what feminist issues they should be focusing their energies, activism and outrage on.

This vital advice is at risk of being lost, spread as it is among myriad threads in this section. Perhaps it would be a good idea to collect it together into one thread, for ongoing reference when posters in this section consider their feminist activities and whether they are really focusing on the right issues.

Obviously it should be borne in mind that feminists are only able to focus strictly on one topic at a time in terms of activism and outrage, so don't overload us with too many issues at once!

OP posts:
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6
INickedAName · 09/02/2015 23:45

I once choked on a whole tomatoe. Neighbour caught me stealing them from her greenhouse and I thought it sensible to swallow the evidence. It wasn't. Stopped me stealing them from the neighbours greenhouse though.

AnyFucker · 09/02/2015 23:50

a lesson well learned < nods wisely >

NormaStanleyFletcher · 10/02/2015 00:50

What a wonderful thread. Almost like the Venus flytrap of topics on fwr.

badgirl123 · 10/02/2015 00:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FloraFox · 10/02/2015 01:18

Don't get comfy sillyboy123

SabrinaMulhollandJjones1984 · 10/02/2015 01:20

badtroll123

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 10/02/2015 01:36

This whole 'honorary man' thing really bugs me (I know you all went on to discuss various sweets and so on but hey). I'm pleased to say that the numerous men I count among my friends don't feel the need to classify me as an 'honorary man' (although the boys I was mates with at school did, as apparently I'm more 'masculine' in my behaviour - that is I stood up for myself and liked video games and sci fi, which, as we all know, is something no 'proper' woman does Hmm ).

'Honorary man' sounds like I'm not good enough to be friends with them as a woman. They have to bestow the honour of male-ness upon me, to make our friendship acceptable. Heaven forbid we can just be friends regardless of sex and gender Hmm

EBearhug · 10/02/2015 08:41

I've had that in two different work places - point out I don’t like the way they're talking about women and get, "But you don't count. You're one of us." Which still doesn't make it okay to objectify women whom they see as other, and I'm not feeling it's a terrible compliment to be seen as one of them, as it appears I lose my identity as a woman for that to happen.

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 10/02/2015 08:43

Yy Ebear.

scallopsrgreat · 10/02/2015 09:39

There is also an element of men as the default and everyone needs to aspire to being a man.

UptoapointLordCopper · 10/02/2015 09:40

I quite agree. "Honorary man" is an insult. "But you don't count. You're one of us." is terrible too. Like people being racist and then go "but not you, of course, you're OK". Bastards.

MephistophelesApprentice · 10/02/2015 12:00

I was an 'honorary woman' for many years. One of my fondest memories is when I was out with a group of female friends, around 19 and as they all got up to go to the bathroom they asked why I wasn't coming (we were on fourth cocktails each). We all found it hugely amusing. Feel free to believe it or not, it was still a very good memory.

Personally when I am welcomed into a group, any group, and they make an effort to accommodate me and my idiosyncrasies I regard it as a mark of high respect, a badge indeed of honor. But then, I tend to have a positive opinion of women. If I had a prejudicial dislike for a particular gender, I'd imagine having them call you one of their own would be regarded as insulting.

For those who were concerned, I had my girlfriend check this thread to confirm that I had not misrepresented her position. I think the aggressive disinterest has been upgraded to active hostility again, but hey ho, I guess that's a debating topic to take off the table between us for a while.

In a final attempt to state her position, she does not have a low opinion of women. She feels that some women, both feminists and more traditionally minded women, have a low opinion of her as a result of who she is rather than the choices she makes (where she accepts criticism as valid).

Lurcio I assure you I can achieve a truly enormous degree of misunderstanding without an effort of will. It's an innate talent.

Evidently my input on this thread was unwelcome and I apologise. I hope that I can participate in discussions at a later date where I do not accidentally make myself the butt of an ongoing joke.

TravelinColour · 10/02/2015 12:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FloraFox · 10/02/2015 12:29

They're not equivalent Meph. If you think about a black man hanging out with white men being called an "honourary white guy" or a white guy hanging out with black men being called an "honourary black guy" - can you see the difference?

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 10/02/2015 12:31

Woman = someone with a vagina who is always sexually available.

woman in friend zone = woman who is denying a man the sex he has a right to, but isn't too annoying.

hatchet faced feminazi = woman who doesn't want to have sex with a man, is not considered sexually attractive, and also has uppity ideas about how men should not be twats and how she should get to be paid the same as them.

honorary man = woman who is neither sexually attractive enough nor annoying enough to fit in to the other categories.

BreakingDad77 · 10/02/2015 12:34

I think maybe more: I don't want to sleep with this woman won't sleep with me, therefore I will declare her an 'honorary man'.?

MephistophelesApprentice · 10/02/2015 13:15

FloraFox

I'm sorry, but I can't. In both situations, you're being honoured in the perceptions of the accepting group. It's in the name. Being welcomed to any group is a privilege (that might be the aspie perspective talking) and being welcomed when you are not naturally part of the group is an enormous mark of respect.

Is it to do with the differing power dynamics?

FloraFox · 10/02/2015 13:18

So are you one of those equalists who thinks it's unfair that white people can't call black men n1ggers?

MephistophelesApprentice · 10/02/2015 13:24

Not in the slightest. I don't like being called a retard by people who don't also have it on their diagnosis, so I can (to a limited extent) understand how certain words should not be used by those who do not have a degree of cultural ownership.

I would like to see a world where the power dynamics that make such a circumstance necessary are finally abandoned, but we are not yet at that point and I will not act as if we are.

scallopsrgreat · 10/02/2015 13:28

But you are acting as if they are. You are not acknowledging the power dynamics at play between being called an "honorary white guy" and being called an "honorary black guy" and you think that the privilege is the same. It isn't.

MephistophelesApprentice · 10/02/2015 13:39

Surely it's due to the perspective of the person being welcomed and the group doing the welcoming.

If you think white people are less worthy than you, you would regard it as offensive to be considered one of them.

If you consider black people to be superior to you, then you would regard it as a compliment to be included.

From the perspective of either group, your honorary status would be a mark of respect, as each in-group regards itself as the arbiter of your fitness for welcome within that group. They have every right to do so.

On a greater scale, one group may be more privileged than the other and from a societal perspective there may be a differing level of privilege that is achieved when one is granted that membership. Is that what you are referring to?

Dervel · 10/02/2015 13:40

It might be tempting to view the "honorary " label as a negative, and indeed it might be a net negative overall, then again it might not, but I'm not qualified to analyse and answer that.

Is there not however room for an interpretation that in some contexts and some circles it is a mark of inclusivity?

That said most of my friends are mixed genders, races, sexualities so there is little need of honorary anything.

FloraFox · 10/02/2015 13:44

Dervel you live in a town populated by mixed race, intersex bisexuals?

shaska · 10/02/2015 13:44

If you consider black people to be superior to you, then you would regard it as a compliment to be included.

But I don't consider men to be superior to me. So I don't see it as a compliment. I see that THEY might see it as a compliment, but to me, this indicates, as you have said, that THEY feel they are superior to me.

MephistophelesApprentice · 10/02/2015 13:48

If someone is giving you equal status, despite lacking other qualifying details, surely this is an indication they feel equal to you?

If you don't see it as a compliment to be equal to men, do you instead regard yourself as superior?