Asking for it

[FuckOffGroundhog]

Men are more likely to be attacked in general than women. Alcohol will frequently have been in use.

Shall we just start a campaign called "don't ask for it" that blames male victims of muggings and attacks. The posters can say if you were walking around drunk while holding money you were pretty much asking to be robbed, also your attacker was drunk too. So maybe you forced them to take your money!

I'm pretty sure once we blame male victims it would take about 5 seconds to click in to place for men that drunk women don't ask for rape.

I wonder how many assault kits have been sat waiting to be processed all over the USA? How many politicians, barristers, TV pundits, newspaper editors, heads of sporting organisations give interviews/write columns/write blogs blaming men for being pissed, or wearing the wrong clothes, or being in the wrong place or just generally asking to be assaulted? I'm sure there'll be a couple, but how many in comparison to those same kinds of people making comments like, "Don't get drunk, and you won't get raped", "she went into the hotel room, did she expect to play scrabble?" or "women who don't leave their violent partners, the first time they're violent, deserve what happens, they should have had more self respect" about female victims of sexual and other assaults? Especially if we're saying that men are more likely to be a victim of violent crimes.

If society honestly believed that men were just as much to blame for being a victim of violent crime as it holds women to be, surely there would be thousands of such statements and articles? Or at least a higher proportion of articles about how men are to blame as there are about how women are?

Surely, that would be logical?

Why haven't you asked the OP to provide evidence that their assertions are correct?

Are you seriously asking for links to articles where women are blamed for being victims of violent crime?

Dotheyfloat Sun 08-Feb-15 16:05:12
The central premise is that male victims of street crime aren't blamed for their actions. I've provided a link to a well-known example of when the exact opposite has occurred. The attitudes expressed in that link towards this type of scenario are very familiar to me within my own social circles.

Why haven't you asked the OP to provide evidence that their assertions are correct?

PuffinsAreFictitious Sun 08-Feb-15 16:13:09
"Are you seriously asking for links to articles where women are blamed for being victims of violent crime?"

Clearly not.

Some people in this forum have serious issues with reading comprehension.

Why haven't you asked the OP to provide evidence that their assertions are correct?

Because I am not talking bollocks :)

HTH

So, what were you asking for links to prove then? A hypothetical thought? How would you do that? Seeing as you're just so much more cleverer than us thicky ladybrains, I'm sure you'll have no dramas doing it.

So, links on how an idea for a prospective campaign insinuating blame attached to all men who are victims of violent crime is correct.

Don't forget that it has to have similar phrases to the ones used in victim blaming articles/campaigns/blogs/etc about women being to blame for being raped. Don't ask for it is a good start.

Away you go.

"FuckOffGroundhog Sun 08-Feb-15 16:27:25

Why haven't you asked the OP to provide evidence that their assertions are correct?

Because I am not talking bollocks smile

HTH"

In other words you have no reliable sources to support the assertions in your OP, just an ideological opinion to push. Well thank you for clarifying that. I sincerely mean that. You're the first person today to straight-up admit they've pulled something out of their arse without any obfuscation when pressed for detail.

"PuffinsAreFictitious Sun 08-Feb-15 16:29:58

So, what were you asking for links to prove then? A hypothetical thought? How would you do that? Seeing as you're just so much more cleverer than us thicky ladybrains, I'm sure you'll have no dramas doing it."

The burden of proof is always on the claimant.

Some people call that statement a 'silencing tactic', however it's more commonly known as logical reasoning.

So here we have someone saying that the stories of countless women and children are not adequate "evidence".

Interesting that when women and children tell what has been done to them and it's not seen as reliable, or worthy of belief, it's because of ideas around women and children being unreliable and not worthy of belief, which feeds back into the point in the OP.

How anyone can read all the stuff in the news about saville and warboys and all the rest of it and say there is no problem here, there is no evidence that there is a problem is beyond me.

Someone invested in not changing the status quo I guess.

Look you idiot has it occurred to you that many women on this site have direct experience of this?

Why not go and look up some of the many many threads where women tell what has happened to them and how they were treated.

It's a win-win, either you'll understand where people are coming from, or you'll have a good laugh.

"Some people call that statement a 'silencing tactic', however it's more commonly known as logical reasoning."

actually it's called an anecdotal fallacy.

1.bp.blogspot.com/-hAOwv3o-sQw/UB7S2GFcltI/AAAAAAAAATM/ZeL_sKUo1QM/s1600/90i.jpg

now fuck off

the burden of proof is not on the claimant in a fucking internet conversation!

what is the matter with you?

so your approach when a 14yo child goes to the police and says "I've been raped" is that they should immediately laugh at her, not believe her, and tell her to prove it.

Well BRILLIANT NEWS this is what often happens. It happened in Rotherham, it happened with various children's homes, it happens all the time.

YOU DON'T NEED TO WORRY about 4 women having a conversation about it on the internet really.

Sardine, he doesn't care, he's just one of those neckbeard devil's advocate types. No one on earth is stupid enough not to know that women are blamed for being victims of violent crimes, where men aren't. So, either he's stupid, and an ET, or he knows and is sniggering at the silly women still engaging with him.

"the burden of proof is not on the claimant in a fucking internet conversation!"

Oh really? You think the internet is some magical place where logic and reason don't apply?

No wonder you find me so irritating.

Going back a bit (sorry) about those figures - blimey Sardine you're a bit sharp aren't you I can't answer those questions, maybe if I get a bit of spare time (hah) I'll look.

And no, Dotheyfloat, we find you irritating because you clearly think you are so superior and do not need to listen to what the women who are being affected by these issues tell you.

You do know that science starts with experience? All it is is the condensed experience of thousands. Our experience here is rather more relevant than yours. Sadly.

The standard assumption made when women and sexual crime are concerned is that they are lying, or that they asked for it. Frequently both at the same time (makes no sense, does it). As soon as they open their mouths. Frequently it remains the standard belief no matter what evidence is produced (I've been there).

That is not the case for any other crime - police listen with an open mind. They certainly don't dismiss cases with evidence without good reason. Why is that difference there do you think? Do be so good as to educate us silly airheads.

"That is not the case for any other crime - police listen with an open mind. They certainly don't dismiss cases with evidence without good reason. Why is that difference there do you think? Do be so good as to educate us silly airheads."

raises hand is it male entitlement to sex?

Anyone notice the date on Dothey's example?

Of course Grimble.... but a single example from more than 10 years ago, totes proves that men have it just as bad.

Oh sorry, yes of course, silly me. I shall go and sit on the naughty step.

Whereas there was a "don't be a victim" rape poster aimed at women in the student union of my university just two weeks ago

And the usual crop of "Don't get yourself raped" Police posters this Christmas.

And various victims of rape who are told that, because they did X, they pretty much deserved it.

And women who don't leave their violent partners being told that any violence that happens after that, is partly their fault, because they knew what they were getting themselves into.

and on

and on.

No that is a "well known" example. The link to some random bloke's blog (?) where he talks about a program I have never seen.

When I think of "well known" I think of headline news and royals and companies like Amazon. Something that happened on an episode of a TV program, some years ago, as reported on some random blog isn't really my idea of "well known".

I'm loving all the logic as well. Men are so terribly logical aren't they. That's why when a woman or a child tells something that has happened to them it's best not to listen to them, right? Right.

I mean that poster is proving our point for us.

We say, women and children often aren't believed.

That poster says I don't believe you.

It's brilliant really

Or it would be his attitude didn't mean that in real life real people are subjected to real actual suffering. So then less funny.

Oh, I think he thinks that real people are subject to suffering. I'm just not convinced that he sees women as real people.