Asking for it

[FuckOffGroundhog]

Men are more likely to be attacked in general than women. Alcohol will frequently have been in use.

Shall we just start a campaign called "don't ask for it" that blames male victims of muggings and attacks. The posters can say if you were walking around drunk while holding money you were pretty much asking to be robbed, also your attacker was drunk too. So maybe you forced them to take your money!

I'm pretty sure once we blame male victims it would take about 5 seconds to click in to place for men that drunk women don't ask for rape.

Nice idea, but I suspect you'd have a bunch of men, the ones who just don't understand why telling women not to enjoy themselves and have a life is victim blaming, just getting all sad, screaming misandry not a real word, folks and still not getting it.

It's men's right to get drunk and not be attacked, women should just face up to the fact that, if they get drunk, then they're asking for it. Or something.

Misandry most certainly is a real word:

misandry
m??sandri/
noun
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex).

Please try to debate using logic and facts when using this forum.

Whoo. Back to school the feminazis.

Aww bless, look at him, trying to make his mark.

Misandry isn't real. Men aren't oppressed, you utter child.

See! Logic AND facts

There's nothing in the definition that says anything about the target having to be "oppressed" You can't just add things to the meanings of words and claim it's a fact!

Do you have anything to say about the OP? Or do you want to lose an argument about semantics? In which case, the correct thing to do is start a new thread, off you trot.

Cause pointing out obvious double standards (I say obvious, though clearly they aren't to idiots some people) is misandry? H'ok.

Also, autocorrect says misandry isn't a real word. #feministphone

I'm becoming increasingly dubious about the "men are much more likely to be attacked" statistic (although happy to see some numbers or crime survey stuff).

I think men are more likely to be attacked in the type of attack that society recognises as violence.

When it comes to being on the receiving end of illegal and unwanted physical stuff women get loads.

So eg if a man walks up to you and slaps you hard round the face most people would say that was an assault and recognise it as a violent crime. If he walked up and slapped you hard on the arse then many people will say hahaha or oh that wasn't very nice but don't make a fuss etc and a much smaller number will recognise it as a violent crime.

So.

Not sure about the premise to be honest

Also many women are attacked by men when they go out in the sense of violent attack that anyone would recognise as such. So, um.

Offences towards women which have a sexual element are just seen as being not as bad I think? As men fighting even if none of them are hurt for eg. So the "asking for it" thing is probably the other way around - it's an excuse so that people for people not taking it seriously. Because they won't. If you get rid of "asking for it" there will be another excuse.

I think in areas where theres lots of gang crime etc , perhaps it is the case more nen experience violence?

Gang violence against girls is horrifying, unfortunately. There has been stuff in the news over the years.

It is usually the boys who end up dead. Which gets a lot of attention in the press.

I think the sort of violence men do to each other is just taken more seriously than the sort of violence men do to women? And to children actually. Probably because man on man violence has a larger impact on society at large in terms of it being more "obvious" and more likely to cause property damage / spill over onto "innocent" people and so on. Would be my guess.

Do you have anything to say about the OP? Or do you want to lose an argument about semantics? In which case, the correct thing to do is start a new thread, off you trot

Seriously Magenetic you don't want to get in to an argument about semantics with this lot. You clearly don't use this forum that much or you would know that, which is weird, considering your attempt to dictate the rules.

Where does one get a #feministphone hoppy?

I'm becoming increasingly dubious about the "men are much more likely to be attacked" statistic (although happy to see some numbers or crime survey stuff).

Tbh I agree with you there, I do think attacks against women and certainly if you include "domestic" violence probably are worse. But for the purpose of indulging the MRAs briefly while allowing ten seconds of thought about victim blaming I was willing to accept the stat.

ChoochiWoo I'm not convinced about that either, rape is rife in gangs. Either to initiate women or to punish them or simply trafficking.

Sorry Sardine www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime/stb-focus-on--violent-crime-and-sexual-offences-2011-12.html
Men are more likely to be the victims of violence. By a considerable margin.

I've lnked this report in before somewhere. What annoys me all the time is that, as you can see, the fact that men are more likely to be victims is on the first page, listed as a key fact. The equally valuable fact that men are more likely to be the perpetrators of violence is buried at the bottom of pg 19 (86% are male) and not a key fact.

We won't get anywhere until that is recognised, officially. I'd like to see that poster campaign, op!

I can never make head or tail of those figures! It says:

"The CSEW showed that young men were most likely to be the victims of violence. The profile of victims of violent and sexual violence varied according to the type of offence. In 2011/12, as in previous years, more than two-thirds of homicide victims (68%) were male. In contrast, women were more likely to be a victim of domestic abuse. Some 7% of women and 5% of men were estimated to have experienced domestic abuse in the last year, equivalent to an estimated 1.2 million female and 800,000 male victims. Similarly, the survey found that young women were much more likely to be victims of sexual assault in the last year."

But what is the overall % or number for violent/sexual/domestic for men and women? Like they say "victims of violence" but then they talk about "violent and sexual violence".

I just see all the time "men are far more likely to be victims than women" and I've never seen the stat that comes from so would be interested.

I'm really not in the mood to go through all the tables and add stuff up right now!

So like on one page it says:

"Overall, men were nearly twice as likely as women (3.8% compared with 2.1%) to have experienced one or more violent crimes in the year prior to interview."

And on another it says:

"In the last year, 7.3% of women and 5.0% of men reported having experienced domestic abuse"
and
"Many more women than men experienced some form of sexual assault (including attempts) in the last year: 3% of women compared with 0.3% of men"

So clearly they aren't including some stuff in their definition of "violence" so when people say men are more likely to experience violence they are defining violence as the sort of thing that happens to men and not including the sorts of things that happen to women. Like the slap in the face / slap on the arse thing.

I'm just not convinced that males experience more shit when out about to the extent that it's right to say "ah well men are far more at risk" because maybe they are a bit but I'm not feeling this massive massive discrepancy really.

So things which happen to women most frequently are put in the "sexual offences" pot and have all sorts of victim blamey / just laugh it off / not that serious labels all over it.

And things that are more likely to happen to men get in a different "violence" pot and headline news saying how awful.

IYSWIM. Just thinking out loud really.

it doesn't matter who gets attacked: men, women, children; it's all male violence. men are the problem.

Yeah I just don't like the pretence that men are only attacking other men and women and girls are pretty safe which is often what gets touted.

How that fits on the page with "don't drink don't wear a skirt don't go out alone don't move don't live or BAD THINGS will happen" I'm not sure but it seems to. I suspect often by the same people as well.

"Shall we just start a campaign called "don't ask for it" that blames male victims of muggings and attacks. The posters can say if you were walking around drunk while holding money you were pretty much asking to be robbed, also your attacker was drunk too. So maybe you forced them to take your money!"

A male victim of such a crime would be regarded as an idiot even if all involved were stone cold sober:

www.jasonmarriner.com/a_mac_020430_mirror.shtml

Getting shitfaced would only add to the embarrassment. If they had their trousers stolen in the process I don't think there would be a dry eye in the house, so to speak.

"I'm pretty sure once we blame male victims it would take about 5 seconds to click in to place for men that drunk women don't ask for rape."

I'm pretty sure you be sorely disappointed. Not that I suspect it would be long before you figured out a way to mentally re-frame the scenario such that the Patriarchy were still the winners.

I'm pretty sure you be sorely disappointed.

Based on what evidence, exactly?

Yes you're right.

Let's keep things as they are with victims of sexual violence usually not telling anyone, and if they do being told it was their own fault, they should shut up about it, are they sure they didn't want it to happen, and that no-one's going to do anything about it!

HOORAY!

Good news also for serial offenders although some of them are coming unstuck now the poor loves. Still good their victims were told to fuck off 30 years ago so at least they got a few more decades of fun before someone listened and something was done. Well in the case of Jimmy Saville only after he was dead so hey result for him.

FWIW I have known a few people who have been mugged - male and female - and none of them have been asked whether they were sure they didn't want to be violently assaulted and have their stuff stolen. And all of them felt confident in reporting what had happened to the police (if they wanted to).

Lots of people really hate the idea that victims of sexual violence be taken seriously by the police or anyone else when they say what has happened to them, don't they.

That is a really weird link.

Not sure what it's supposed to be saying. Just some commentary about a TV program (that I've not seen).

The central premise is that male victims of street crime aren't blamed for their actions. I've provided a link to a well-known example of when the exact opposite has occurred. The attitudes expressed in that link towards this type of scenario are very familiar to me within my own social circles.

Why haven't you asked the OP to provide evidence that their assertions are correct?

SardineQueen Sun 08-Feb-15 15:58:15
"Let's keep things as they are with victims of sexual violence usually not telling anyone,..."

Was this addressed towards me? I don't think it is because it bears no relation to anything I've said, but I though I'd check.