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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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trial of alleged rape victim who killed herself

374 replies

chaosmonkey · 06/11/2014 19:55

www.theguardian.com/law/2014/nov/06/call-crown-prosecutors-account-suicide-alleged-rape-victim

A young woman who said she had been raped went on to kill herself after the Crown Prosecution Service put her on trial for making up the allegation in a case originally instigated by her alleged attacker.

A bit speechless, so have just cut and paste initial para - sorry

OP posts:
RufusTheReindeer · 09/12/2014 07:59

I'm assuming you have sat on a jury or have some sort of links to court procedures gita

Because as numerous people on here have said "we don't know what happened, we don't know what (if any) evidence for or against there is"

And therefore most of us have an open mind, he may be guilty of rape she may have lied or been confused and therefore made a "false" allegation

FloraFox · 09/12/2014 10:19

God forbid that git has ever been allowed out on his own sat on a jury.

I didn't say you weren't allowed to draw conclusions, this is not a jury room so you can think what you like. You may not have spotted it but no-one on the thread is proclaiming what happened other than you and the other cheerleaders. You are saying he is innocent and she is guilty and others are pointing out that perhaps you might be a bit more measured in your assessment and less prone to fill in gaps in your knowledge with assumptions which are based on dodgy preconceptions about how a rape victim should behave.

If you could stop and think and perhaps try not to apply your biases, you might consider the implications of what you have said. If you discredit the evidence of women with mental health issues, you are making it almost impossible for a man who rapes a woman with mental health issues to be convicted. Oh look, that's actually happening:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-rape-of-vulnerable-women-has-been-effectively-decriminalised-9161336.html

Dervel · 09/12/2014 13:36

I'm still struggling to see the relevance of the tantric massage and secret life angle. You seem to be saying that by establishing she has lied that affords some sort of insight, well everybody lies sometimes. Also and this is probably tied to the daily fail bias, but did one of her friends point blank ask her: "are you a secret tantric massage provider?" To which she replied in the negative. Otherwise it looks like she kept a side of her life private to certain friends/family, and I think that's a stretch to call it lying.

I think that being the case in a court setting that piece of evidence would be torn to pieces by any defense counsel that was even half awake.

You are of course right about her father, were I in his position I really don't know what I would do.

Going back to Mr Falsly accused, again that is merely my opinion of him. It seems he achieved his objective and not only "destroyed" her, but has seen fit to drag her name through the mud in the media after the fact. Honestly the only two salient facts that point to his innocence are the best sex texts, and the cctv footage. Those may indeed exonerate him in a legal sense, but not necessarily in a moral one.

To put it another way if someone comes at me in a physical alteration and I apply an appropriate amount of force to render them unable to further injure me or others, that's fine. If once having disabled them I proceed to repeatedly kick them in the head I've gone too far. Metaphorically he has done that here, she was a genuine threat to him, I accept that and he set out and achieved in utterly obliterating her in response.

Even if he is indeed innocent, and I won't debate that point as an awful lot does point in that direction, I still think he treated this poor woman abominably.

kell7890 · 09/12/2014 16:35

The DPP Alison Saunders says why they decided to prosecute

“The evidence in this case was strong and having considered it in light of all of our knowledge and guidance on prosecuting sexual offences and allegedly false rape claims, it is clear there was sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction for perverting the course of justice.

“This evidence included text messages and CCTV footage that directly contradicted the account Ms De Freitas gave to the police. This was not an assumption based on her behaviour or actions which fall into myths or stereotypes about how alleged rape victims should behave.

Perhaps the people who have been bending over backwards to hold the line saying things like"Wait until the DPP gives her verdict" might now reflect that there WERE strong grounds to prosecute.

Just a thought.

LeBearPolar · 09/12/2014 16:51

So it does seem that the text messages were not just dreamt up by the Daily Mail then.

Mengog · 09/12/2014 16:58

m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30399427

Obviously the evidence wasn't put to trial and there may have been a reasonable explanation for the text messages and the inconsistency. Or it may be a case that she lied. We will never know for sure either way.

FloraFox · 09/12/2014 19:17

I note there is no mention of an interview with Eleanor where these charges were put to her. I wonder if the DPP might comment on how many prosecutions have proceeded to trial without interviewing the accused person.

She also doesn't comment much on the medical examination. Clearly the doctor was wrong in deciding she was fit to stand trial. It is pretty much the only thing we know for sure about this whole case.

sanfairyanne · 09/12/2014 20:31

police stand by their original statement that she should never have been charged

sounds like cps 'had to' take case forward but would not have initiated it, maybe?

Eleanor de Freitas should never have been charged, police say

gu.com/p/443ax

SaucyJack · 09/12/2014 20:50

From that very article sanfairyanne

(Alison Saunders, Director of Public Prosecutions) "said the police were not in a position to give a view, as they “never undertook an investigation into the alleged perverting the course of justice nor did they consider all the material provided to us by the private prosecution”.

Are you now saying she's lying, and you know more about the case than she does?

OmnipotentQueenOfTheUniverse · 09/12/2014 20:59

I find it really depressing while many people are quick to say that all men accused of sex offences, no matter what the evidence or who has accused them or how many victims have come forward, must be treated as innocent until found guilty in a court of law

Many people are also quite happy to say that this woman was definitely guilty even though it will never get to court.

Are they the same people? I have no idea. But if they are, it shows up a massive double standard doesn't it.

OmnipotentQueenOfTheUniverse · 09/12/2014 21:04

Oh and out of interest, did anyone for a moment imagine that the response from the CPS on the actions taken by the CPS would ever be anything but positive for the CPS?

But then I don't trust the police, CPS etc full stop. Anyhow, it's not exactly come as a massive shock.

What is interesting I suppose, what will be interesting, is whether they say that they thought the accusation was a result of her mental health, or whether it was malicious. If the former, it doesn't bode well for people with mental health problems who are prone to "confessing" and all sorts. I doubt we will be appraised of that detail though, I'm guessing this is the full statement or will there be further info I wonder.

sanfairyanne · 09/12/2014 21:21

i am saying what the police statement is. as per article linked to. which also says cps, (here i do paraphrase) cant let private prosecutions of this kind go ahead, so cps took over, and as long as it met minimum standards they would take it forwards

police did not back cps on this until it went right to the top

sanfairyanne · 09/12/2014 21:24

was she ever interviewed about this prosecution? at what stage?

sanfairyanne · 09/12/2014 21:27

'But De Freitasâ??s father, David, said CPS lawyers had never met or interviewed his daughter about her allegations â?? and that perhaps explained the discrepancy between their view and that of the rape investigators'

the very next words on from your quote

is that normal practice?

BobbyDarin · 09/12/2014 21:45

There is an inquest hearing due so I imagine that some of these things - hopefully all of them - will be aired. Her father was complaining that it didn't look like the remit would include all CPS decisions though.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 09/12/2014 22:00

The de Freitas family are applying to have the inquest heard by a jury, the Coroner's Inquest was adjourned. The CPS statement was what they needed in order to start that process.

MyEmpireOfDirt · 09/12/2014 22:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tim1984 · 13/12/2014 22:55

This is an interesting recording just popped on YouTube. It appears to be a police officer discussing the de Freitas case.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=8W-wzrnVVtU

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 13/12/2014 23:54

Tim. This is your first post on MN. You posted a video uploaded on YT today with very few views (50 odd). I think we can all hazard a guess at who you might be.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 14/12/2014 00:08

Interesting in what way Tim?

You'll have to excuse me, but I tend not to click on random YT videos posted by one post wonders, without a level of explanation.

AlexanderEconomou · 17/12/2014 00:49

Hi there.

This is Alexander Economou the private prosecutor. If you would please allow me to show you the CCTV of the prosecution evidence and then you decide for yourselves what this is all about. I have unfortunately been compelled to do this as life is pretty unbearable at the moment and i need to show people the truth and that the evidence was in fact absurd.

Here: vimeo.com/114721270

Thank you.

Alexander

AlexanderEconomou · 17/12/2014 00:52

Hi there.

This is Alexander Economou the private prosecutor. If you would please allow me to show you the CCTV of the prosecution evidence and then you decide for yourselves what this is all about. I have unfortunately been compelled to do this as life is pretty unbearable at the moment and i need to show people the truth and that the evidence was in fact absurd.

Here: vimeo.com/114721270

Thank you.

Alexander

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 17/12/2014 01:10

I'm sorry you're finding life unbearable. I make no comment on whether this was rape or false allegation - I was not there. I personally think you are making things worse for yourself, as she is no longer here to defend herself. I would have never heard your name had you not taken out your private prosecution. And your video has a very poor choice of words. "Was she raped, you decide" I'm just Shock Hmm at that.

A cctv film of the complainant the next day is proof of nothing. Genuine rape victims frequently will 'carry on as before' as a self-protection mechanism, or because they are in denial. Rape victims have been known to continue dating their rapist, to send them loving messages. I know a rape victim who stayed married to her rapist for years. He is now in prison for rape. I myself continued living with my (then) partner after he had raped me while I was asleep.

I have never reported my rapist. No doubt he could have produced evidence that I behaved normally afterwards too. But rest assured, I was raped. I was asleep and unable to consent in my unconscious state. Not all rape victims scream and fight and cry and and go straight to the police in a distressed state.

I wasn't going to post in response to you - but you need to know this ^ regardless of the reality of your case.

FloraFox · 17/12/2014 08:06

Alexander Is your life more bearable now that Eleanor is dead?

NoAloha · 05/01/2015 14:20

OmnipotentQueenOfTheUniverse says: oh and out of interest, did anyone for a moment imagine the response from the CPS on the actions taken by the CPS would ever be anything but positive for the CPS.

Exactperfuckinglutely.

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