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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Why a lot of women don't come on the feminism threads...

999 replies

Scarletohello · 30/10/2014 22:38

So I posted this question earlier, why don't more women come on these threads ( considering how many women are on MN)

The replies saddened me. Are we doing something wrong? I remember a thread some time ago asking how many women lurk on the feminism threads but never post. I was shocked by how many women read these threads but didn't feel able to join in. I don't think feminism has to be particularly intellectual and I would like to be able to educate more women about feminism, how it affects women in many different areas of their lives, offer support and talk about what we as women can do about it.

Please have a read of this thread and tell me what your thoughts are. I want us to be as inclusive as possible as it affects us all...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2222959-To-be-a-bit-dismayed-if-4-million-women-visit-this-site-why-are-there-so-few-posts-on-the-feminism-threads

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 17:18

Sorry, frauhelga- I can't find anything- I thought you meant the one about a particular type of part time work- but it must be something else if it was in FWR. Anyway- always report personal attacks.

rosdearg · 31/10/2014 17:22

Yes CaptainJane, but it also goes deeper than that

JustAShopGirl · 31/10/2014 17:27

I don't tend to post on feminism threads because i don't feel the need to have to frame an argument in such a way that I will not be seen as semi literate, uneducated about feminism and generally feel a bit belittled...

I had felt very much this way in the past under a different MN name many moons ago.

"you don't understand..." well, yes I did I just didn't think a particular issue was that important in MY life, personally - though some people thought so... and was not erudite enough to back my corner - so left the board for a while... feeling sad, belittled and a little big angry over being made to feel like a child.

I have not been on the feminism part of the site recently, I hope it has changed.

FrauHelga · 31/10/2014 17:27

Well, the one about a particular sort of part time fetish work wasn't in fwr. The one I'm talking about was about Jian whatshisname.

(Again, apols, am trying to dress and type)

RufusTheReindeer · 31/10/2014 17:41

Oh I remember frau

What you were saying was very interesting

Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 18:03

frauHelga- I must be a much tougher nut than I thought. Either that or there is another thread about Jian Ghomeshi that I haven't found......

FrauHelga · 31/10/2014 18:08

Look, Hak, I don't want to get into a spat with you, but if you read the thread you will see that there were assumptions and comments made about my sexuality that I found offensive.

And, therefore, I decided to leave the thread.

I don't think I fit well in FWR and I have chosen not to go back, because what is a part of me, what is of my very essence, a thing I cannot change, is not welcome in FWR. It was mocked, it was said to be "play", I was told I had overshared, when in fact I hadn't, I was yawned at, it passive aggressive at best and down right rude at worst.

FrauHelga · 31/10/2014 18:09

Oh and I was told I was pro-domme. Which I am not. But sure, some random off the internet can tell me what I am and know what I am better than I know myself.

Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 18:17

I don't want to get into a spat either. I was quite serious when I said I must be a much tougher nut than I thought. I know now why I just don't see the attacking and belittling and so on that people at always saying happens to them on FWR threads. It's because what others see as that, I see (with one or two exceptions) either as robust debate or an individual being an arsehole and best either ignored or stomped on.

Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 18:19

Because that's certainly how I see the pretty constant anti feminist sniping that takes place on any thread outside FWR when somebody mentions feminism.........

FrauHelga · 31/10/2014 18:22

So, if I see it as someone being an arsehole and choose to leave ?

Or was I the one being an arsehole?

Confused
Hakluyt · 31/10/2014 18:29

Of course you have a perfect right to leave. But it does seem a pretty extreme reaction to a single areshole. People would be leaving practically every thread in droves. Leaving only the areshole behind!

FrauHelga · 31/10/2014 18:30

Maybe so, and I do leave threads - but FWR is a bit like posting in, for example, camping. If I posted in camping and was told I was doing it wrong, I was a prostitute, I was wrong, I'd leave camping and not go back.

Archfarchnad · 31/10/2014 18:34

I'm another FWR lurker, have seldom posted here, but looking back over the board I can see that I've opened at least a third of recent threads (admittedly as they cropped up on active convos) so the subject matter is clearly interesting to me. But yes, it often comes across as something of a 'closed shop' here, with a limited group of regulars who have 'seen the light' despairing at anyone who disagrees with them. People who continue to disagree about the basic 'agreed truths' can only be goady fuckers or trolls. It's possibly I'm basing that judgement more on FWR of a year or so ago, and I'd be happy to give things more of a chance here now.

I'm not intimidated by it, but it can be incredibly tedious - just as much as the 'fight club' aggression on AIBU. I hid the Doghouse a few years back for the same reason (and because I'm not a dog person, it must be said). Having a reasonable discussion on something is about respecting each person's views, not writing them off altogether because a newbie doesn't happen to subscribe 100% to the perceived wisdom on the boards here. I'm appalled - but not surprised - by the number of posters today who've been saying the same thing - that they identify as a feminist and support feminist goals, but that the atmosphere on FWR Chat is not something they feel comfortable with. What a pity, and a wasted chance. I live a fairly feminist life in practice (kept my own name, have my own business, only shave my legs if I really feel like it, stand up to misogynists in RL, etc), I don't feel the need to go out and read a pile of Dworkin on top of that as some sort of affirmation.

The threads that have horrified me most over the last year (can't remember the exact dates, unfortunately): firstly a discussion on the Amnesty prostitution debacle, which as usual deteriorated into a slagging-off session against prostitutes. Several times women came on to present the prostitute point of view and were shouted down each time - essentially it came across as a fairly middle-class, educated, privileged group of feminists telling prostitutes what they should be thinking and telling them how to behave. Way to go with the disempowerment of already disempowered members of society! Now I'm absolutely not in favour of prostitution generally, whether male or female, it's obviously deeply founded in exploitation, but if a prostitute says s/he is doing it voluntarily and is OK with it, why do you automatically assume that must poster be a troll or a plant by MRAs? Why are you depriving them of their agency

The other thing that peeved me was the transactivism discussion. Yeah, I get that there are a few very public transactivists who are quite confrontational about feminists and cis women , but in response feminists are coming across as quite aggressively anti-transpeople generally. Which, again, is not the answer.

The general impression of contemporary feminism is all a bit 'People's Front of Judea' with splinter groups and alliances and in-talk rather than genuine, open, welcoming discussion of individual views. Apologies for being so honest about this.

YonicScrewdriver · 31/10/2014 20:19

Interesting Arch.

AsAMan · 31/10/2014 20:42

AM I being thick or did this thread go poof earlier? Confused

AsAMan · 31/10/2014 20:43

right that's been addressed, I'm not losing it on this occasion

TessOfTheAmityvilles · 31/10/2014 20:44

I tend to lurk mainly, and post sporadically, largely due to the fact I don't feel clever enough. Wink

When I do post though, I've never had problems, so am happy to do so when I feel I have something to contribute.

blueshoes · 31/10/2014 21:19

Totally agree with Arch

PanIsNotAButterfly · 31/10/2014 21:36

yes, Arch, the 'power' to silence debate in FWR is fairly astounding at times. As much as I appreciate and learn from the boards the habits of shutting off discussion because the poster hasn't expressed themselves in an acceptable, highly stylised manner at a high octane level is an indictment. (and frankly a lot of it is just academic posturing by 'regulars' and always will be.)

The couple of 'recovery' threads commenced seem to be horse.bolted sort of thing. These things don't change attitudes and habits.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 31/10/2014 21:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PanIsNotAButterfly · 31/10/2014 21:41

Crumbs, an example in action of shutting down - 'make it personal' - no Buffy it was nothing relating to you, Sorry.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 31/10/2014 21:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BellaSolanum · 31/10/2014 21:44

Nothing relating to the poster who just so happened to be the OP of the thread you named? Right..

usualsuspect333 · 31/10/2014 21:44

I love reading the threads but feel I don't know enough to contribute.

I don't want to appear thick, so I don't post.